Crystalline, I think it may be the book. Many of my female friends do not read fantasy or science fiction, as they deem them 'male' subjects. This in spite of the fact that some of the best writers in this field are women (Ursula LeGuin, Elizabeth Moon, Stephanie Meyers [sp?], and others). I am trying to remember, when I was Discussion Leader for "Lord Jim" it seems like not too many ladies participated in that on either.

Maybe I should reiterate; while the setting is fantasy (dragons, magic, etc.) the basic theme is political intrigue and family rivalries. Also, for those considering the books for the first time, some of the strongest characters are female.

Crystalline wrote:I'm reading the next section (chapters 16 - 23) so I'll wait to comment a little later, but I'm wondering why so few women are participating in this discussion. I'm new here, so is this typical? Women just don't participate in these duscussions or is it the choice of book? If I remember correctly, few ladies participated in "Tempesta's Dream" discussion also? Why?

Well, I am a woman and I am participating. There are several female fiction readers on BT. It may be the content, I happen to like long epic stories like GoT.

I have been thinking about the genre of fantasy and how GoT fits into it. The characters are not only human, but they are familiar. The characters and events of the novel are similar to those in 15 century England. Its brutal and barbaric, young girls married off and incest are realistic of the time. I realize that some fantastic creatures will be appearing, but for the most part, I don't think GoT is as hard core fantasy as "Lord of the Rings" for instance. GoT reminds me of a very, very long fairy tale, then again, the genre of fantasy started with the fairy tale.

Crystalline wrote:the love scene between Dany and Drogo was not bad.

I watched a few episodes of the series, and the show made this touching scene barbaric. I like the show, however, it does not follow the time line of the novel. There are some spoilers, even in the first 10 minutes of the first episode. What I did enjoy about watching a few episodes is I was able to see faces to the characters. The characters are introduced so quickly, and there are so many of them that I was finding it difficult to create a vision of the characters just by reading.

Dany has come out as a favorite character for me. Of course I love Imp as well. He seems to be well grounded, and smart. He is probably overlooked and ignored often because of his spectacular siblings, but this is to his advantage. He can observe and learn.

Fantasy and science fiction are predominantly read by males. Just Google this question and you'll find essays on the subject. Men and women think differently. We are excited and saddened and angered by different things.

I haven't read much about the female vs. male ratios in forums like this, but I'm a big MMO gamer person and have found that even though there are generally fewer female than male gamers there generally are more females around in those games than one would guess. I know plenty of women that hide their gender in order to be able to play just as a person and not as a female gamer and all the irritating reactions that can go with that. I know people that go so far as to use voice modulators. I've also known plenty of men who try to pass for women. One thing I've noticed is that wives have a harder time finding time to play than males in couples that have children. Most of the housework and childcare seems to still fall to them even in this modern age even when both adults are working. That might apply to "wasting time" on forums as well.

In Game of Thrones I love the strong female characters. Despite the 7 kingdoms being a place where men inherit and women get sold off for marriage and baby bearing there are still quite a few strong female characters. It is interesting to see how they deal with the power imbalance. Some use wiles or sexuality, some rule from behind their man, some learn to use their femininity to their advantage, and in future books some lead by their own right because they live in kingdoms (mostly outside of the 7 main kingdoms) that allow females to inherit (or be elected or in positions of power). I've always been drawn to strong female characters, probably because I'm a female myself and see inequality in my own life because of gender. I'm curious about the male perspective on this. How about it, men, do you find yourself generally drawn to or disliking strong female characters? Actually, fellow women, are you usually drawn to or repulsed by those characters? I even have a soft spot for Cersi who tells her husband, the king that (the following isn't a big spoiler, I'm just not sure if her saying that is in these chapters yet and there is a little bit of character speculation that might come from clues revealed later in this book):

Spoiler

she should wear the pant and he the skirts, in a nutshell. I do wonder if she had been born male if she would have been nicer and less cut throat because she could have possibly gained power more easily instead of having to use quite so much cunning and wiles. She seems to really crave power, where Lady Stark seems to more want a good family life and things to just run smoothly. Lady Stark is very capable and intelligent, but she is perfectly happy to be the strength of Eddard. Also, Eddard takes her seriously and seems to treat her like an intellectual equal and values her council, whereas King Robert doesn't exactly treat his Queen very nicely. He has reasons, but did the reasons come before the treatment or did Cerci get mean to him because he treated her poorly?

If the author were a female do any of you think this fictional world would be one in which females could inherit by birth order instead of only if there are no male heirs? Perhaps that's why the percentage of women who read fantasy is lower; I have no idea.

Scrumfish you can count me as one who has devoted time to female writers, I found that they are every bit as good as any male writer out there. In my personal life I have seen woman who were braver than the strongest men around, I mean fearless in the face of death, If a woman is slighted it is likely because someone else is threatened by her strength.
Its really a bad mark that for so many years woman were/are held back because of their being a woman. All this should go without saying of course.

As to Cerci Lannister, it may be premature at this point to get into her, but her marriage to Robert was arranged, he was supposed to wed Lyanna Stark. Cerci loves Cerci, followed by her inbred children than her brother Jamie.

Spoiler

Robert Baratheon on his wedding night called Cerci, "Lyanna" by mistake and she does not forgive or forget. She wants to rule because everything would than be about her.

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I believe the woman in this story share the same traits as the men. Lacking the ability to rape of course.
There isn't room in the story yet for absolute selflessness, but it will come, it has to.