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Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us? 
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Post Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
Taxation determines what poverty levels will exist within it’s demographic form. It controls the graph shown below. Governments control taxation and thus control poverty levels directly.
Imagine if you will, the real truth of that taxation, if used correctly, to move the wealth shown in this graph wherever it wants to, with minimal effect on the whole. The fact is, experts say that such a reality would be a win win for everyone.
https://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-am ... ing-fact-2
Not how little of a change would be needed to reach the ideal.
Wise and moral people throughout history, as well as most religious movements, put poverty as the number one enemy to man’s first priority, which is security.
For perhaps the first time in history, we have the wealth where we could end poverty quite easily, --- just with our collective loose change.
It would seem to me that governments are not acting ethically and should be chastised.
I guess that George Carlin, a wise person, was correct in what he said of what Americans cannot feel in their anal orifices. I apply the same condition to the vast majority of the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY
If true that we are being willfully ignorant, and do not even care about each other to insure we live in a moral environment, then our owners have succeeded in cowering man’s moral nature to a state of subservience. We have given up our freedom. If we ever had any.
We have all accepted to be slaves. Shame on us all.
We do not live in a Democracy. We live in a Hypocrisy.
We can easily rid ourselves of poverty.
Should we?
Morality says yes.
Will we do the right thing?
Not till hell freezes over.
Regards
DL



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Litwitlou
Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:56 pm
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

We live in a Hypocrisy.

Regards
DL


It is not moral for our government to impose poverty on us. Our government should insure that the rich remain rich. Think of all the things you can do with $11 million that you can't do with $10 million.

We live in a Hypocrisy? I was thinking we lived in a Wes Craven remake of Alice in Wonderland.


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Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:24 am
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
We can easily rid ourselves of poverty.
Should we?
Morality says yes.

We have become more of an oligarchy than a democracy and so capitalism is hobbled from within by the real players—those with power and money. There still is something to the idea that government should lay off as much as possible and allow the market to function in terms of supply and demand. But obviously that isn't working with our current system of government, which has become hijacked by corporate interests. Top down redistribution of wealth by the government—full on socialism—doesn't work because we need competition and motivation. Thus the question becomes how to restore power to the people by way of free market capitalism, or at the very least a mixed economy that utilizes elements of both capitalism and socialism.

In the end though, I don't think there's an "easy" way of ridding ourselves of poverty until we can figure out how to stop corporate influence. Maybe we need Plato's philosopher-kings running the show.

Food for thought. Thanks for posting.


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Gnostic Bishop
Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:25 am
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
Litwitlou wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

We live in a Hypocrisy.

Regards
DL


It is not moral for our government to impose poverty on us. Our government should insure that the rich remain rich. Think of all the things you can do with $11 million that you can't do with $10 million.

We live in a Hypocrisy? I was thinking we lived in a Wes Craven remake of Alice in Wonderland.


I agree that we need the rich.

I do not agree that the governments should insure that particular rich people should be helped to remain rich. The survival of the fittest rules our evolution and it should not be a government. Let the rich compete and live or die by their wits.

Regards
DL



Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:26 am
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
geo wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
We can easily rid ourselves of poverty.
Should we?
Morality says yes.

We have become more of an oligarchy than a democracy and so capitalism is hobbled from within by the real players—those with power and money. There still is something to the idea that government should lay off as much as possible and allow the market to function in terms of supply and demand. But obviously that isn't working with our current system of government, which has become hijacked by corporate interests. Top down redistribution of wealth by the government—full on socialism—doesn't work because we need competition and motivation. Thus the question becomes how to restore power to the people by way of free market capitalism, or at the very least a mixed economy that utilizes elements of both capitalism and socialism.

In the end though, I don't think there's an "easy" way of ridding ourselves of poverty until we can figure out how to stop corporate influence. Maybe we need Plato's philosopher-kings running the show.

Food for thought. Thanks for posting.


You say redistribution does not work when we have not really ever attempted it except with band aid solutions.

I am talking a fundamental and moral way of thinking of our demography, and if you look at that graph and estimate how much actual redistribution would be required to end poverty, you can easily see that it is basically loose change to the rich.

We are refusing to make a small change to make our immoral system moral.

That could be done without any negatives happening in the issues you brought up.

Regards
DL



Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:33 am
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
t
I agree that we need the rich.

I do not agree that the governments should insure that particular rich people should be helped to remain rich. The survival of the fittest rules our evolution and it should not be a government. Let the rich compete and live or die by their wits.

Regards
DL


That was sarcasm. For the record, I do not believe it's the government's job to help the rich stay rich. I'm surprised, and a bit saddened, that the statement was taken seriously.


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Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:25 am
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
Litwitlou wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
t
I agree that we need the rich.

I do not agree that the governments should insure that particular rich people should be helped to remain rich. The survival of the fittest rules our evolution and it should not be a government. Let the rich compete and live or die by their wits.

Regards
DL


That was sarcasm. For the record, I do not believe it's the government's job to help the rich stay rich. I'm surprised, and a bit saddened, that the statement was taken seriously.


Perhaps if you worked on the delivery and would remember that on the net, you will find all kinds of stupidity.
I do not mean that in any personal way.
I myself try not to use sarcasm without naming it so as many have misunderstood mine.

Regards
DL



Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:07 am
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang is thinking along those lines...

"The Freedom Dividend is a form of universal basic income (UBI), a type of social security that guarantees a certain amount of money to every citizen within a given governed population, without having to pass a test or fulfill a work requirement. Every UBI plan can be different in terms of amount or design.

Andrew Yang is running for President as Democrat in 2020 to implement the Freedom Dividend. This form of UBI that he is proposing for the United States is a set of guaranteed payments of $1,000 per month, or $12,000 per year, to all U.S. citizens over the age of 18. Yes, that means you and everyone you know would get another $1,000/month every month from the U.S. government, no questions asked."

https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-freedom-dividend-faq/



Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:25 pm
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
DWill wrote:
Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang is thinking along those lines...

"The Freedom Dividend is a form of universal basic income (UBI), a type of social security that guarantees a certain amount of money to every citizen within a given governed population, without having to pass a test or fulfill a work requirement. Every UBI plan can be different in terms of amount or design.

Andrew Yang is running for President as Democrat in 2020 to implement the Freedom Dividend. This form of UBI that he is proposing for the United States is a set of guaranteed payments of $1,000 per month, or $12,000 per year, to all U.S. citizens over the age of 18. Yes, that means you and everyone you know would get another $1,000/month every month from the U.S. government, no questions asked."

https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-freedom-dividend-faq/


All citizens are not in need.

As you can see by the graph in the O.P., only a few need help.

If all get a break, the graph says basically the same after corporation adjust their products selling price.

Does Yang have a ways and means part to show where all that money will come from?

Regards
DL



Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:17 am
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
That was sarcasm. For the record, I do not believe it's the government's job to help the rich stay rich. I'm surprised, and a bit saddened, that the statement was taken seriously.[/quote]

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Perhaps if you worked on the delivery and would remember that on the net, you will find all kinds of stupidity.
I do not mean that in any personal way.
I myself try not to use sarcasm without naming it so as many have misunderstood mine.

Regards
DL


No, I don't think it's my delivery. "It is the job of the government to ensure the rich stay rich." If someone can't tell that's sarcasm I'm not responsible. I will, however, stop correcting posts that take ridiculous statements seriously. As for stupidity... the gods themselves...


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Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:21 am
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
Litwitlou wrote:
That was sarcasm. For the record, I do not believe it's the government's job to help the rich stay rich. I'm surprised, and a bit saddened, that the statement was taken seriously.


Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Perhaps if you worked on the delivery and would remember that on the net, you will find all kinds of stupidity.
I do not mean that in any personal way.
I myself try not to use sarcasm without naming it so as many have misunderstood mine.

Regards
DL


No, I don't think it's my delivery. "It is the job of the government to ensure the rich stay rich." If someone can't tell that's sarcasm I'm not responsible. I will, however, stop correcting posts that take ridiculous statements seriously. As for stupidity... the gods themselves...[/quote]

You forget that I think our politicians are owned by our oligarch owners, so I would obviously give reality to what I see as a possible truth.

You are not as good a writer as you think if you do not consider the mind set you are trying to amuse.

Regards
DL



Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:51 am
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
We are living in the most opulent time in human history. The biggest problem faced by poor people in western cultures of obesity. They get too much to eat while laving little or no exercise to do. In America the lower 30% pay no income taxes and actually receive money back as a tax-rebate welfare program.

The poor today live better than kings lived throughout most of history. No king from the middle ages could drive down a street in a car where he controlled the temperature around him and had a symphony at his fingertips.

No King could cure the mildest infection or ease his toothaches or get the fleas out of his own beard and every one of them had many of their children die in their arms from untreatable childhood diseases.

The amusing thing is not that we are all FANTASTICALLY RICHER THAN THE GODS WERE EVER IMAGINED TO BE.

The interesting thing is how so many of us still want to imagine we are poor or who are compelled to recite the age-old mantra: The rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer.

It is a psychological anomaly that tells us something about the human mind. It is NOT FACTS that matter but our TRUTHS.



Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:25 pm
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
stephen martin fritz wrote:

The poor today live better than kings lived throughout most of history. .


Name the kings you know of that were homeless and whose income was close to what the graph in the O.P. shows.

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DL



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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
The "homeless" people you speak of are homeless due to their own addictions of mental illnesses. They are surrounded by the opulence they could be taking part of.

You are writing on this computer ... you are not homeless. So are you (and the others on this site) somehow being propped up by conspiring bankers and your millionaire daddies exploiting the poor? Or did the people on this site just happen to be born with extraordinary talent or brains?

These "homeless" people are "homeless" not because they did not have the same opportunities you and I enjoy. They are not being KEPT DOWN. Their shortcoming is from within their own character or habits or genetics.

Go to the heroine addict sprawled out on the street corner and ask him if he'd be king in the year 1199 when he'd be expected to ride into battle on horseback without his heroine.

My guess is that he'll stay on his corner.

Just as he could get a job today if he had the drive ... but he'll stay sprawled out under his newspaper.

The question should be reworded: IS IT MORAL TO IMPOSE POVERTY ON YOURSELF?



Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:12 pm
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Post Re: Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?
stephen martin fritz wrote:
The "homeless" people you speak of are homeless due to their own addictions of mental illnesses. They are surrounded by the opulence they could be taking part of.

You are writing on this computer ... you are not homeless. So are you (and the others on this site) somehow being propped up by conspiring bankers and your millionaire daddies exploiting the poor? Or did the people on this site just happen to be born with extraordinary talent or brains?

These "homeless" people are "homeless" not because they did not have the same opportunities you and I enjoy. They are not being KEPT DOWN. Their shortcoming is from within their own character or habits or genetics.

Go to the heroine addict sprawled out on the street corner and ask him if he'd be king in the year 1199 when he'd be expected to ride into battle on horseback without his heroine.

My guess is that he'll stay on his corner.

Just as he could get a job today if he had the drive ... but he'll stay sprawled out under his newspaper.

The question should be reworded: IS IT MORAL TO IMPOSE POVERTY ON YOURSELF?


So people die from exposure due to their own failings and you don't care because you think we all have the same opportunities, which is an outright lie.
I get how you think.

Now. To the question, if I might ask you to focus.

Ghandi and other moral thinkers think it immoral for a government to do as that graph shows, imposing poverty.

Do you think it a moral thing to do even if as you think, those people are their by their own lack of initiative?

Regards
DL



Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:18 pm
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