Welcome aboard, Kinda! We're in the same boat as I'm just beginning too (and about to make a post to the Ch. 1 discussion).

-Cap

Finally finished the book. It's a great one. I study framing devices in fiction and this book made use of several interesting ones--having a stand-alone piece wrapped in other narratives, shifting points of view, lurching through time/space, and so on.

As far as the meaning(s) of the book, I can see the obvious ones but not those that run deeper. I had to read in spurts but someday I'll read it again, uninterrupted, and perhaps I'll see more. I saw a BUNCH of similarities between the Soviet Union and what we have in America at the moment, but those weren't written into the novel, just socialist commonalities.

Thank you Robert for recommending the book.

KindaSkolarly wrote:Finally finished the book. It's a great one.

Glad you enjoyed it, and as I mentioned, it topped Russian polls of the best Russian novel, up against some heavy hitters like Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy and others.

KindaSkolarly wrote: I study framing devices in fiction and this book made use of several interesting ones--having a stand-alone piece wrapped in other narratives, shifting points of view, lurching through time/space, and so on.

I would find it very interesting if you could expand on how you see Bulgakov using framing devices. We recently discussed the sparrow, which appears in the Christ chapter and then again later. I think Bulgakov is masterful at preparing for introduction of new plot points, and suspect he does so in ways the reader is unlikely to notice. I found the weaving together of the various subplots worked extremely well, since I remember in other Russian novels my head would spin with all the names. Maybe it is the vivid way Bulgakov describes all his characters that makes them memorable, and a pleasure to meet again when they have been absent for a few chapters. Even Mr W.

KindaSkolarly wrote: As far as the meaning(s) of the book, I can see the obvious ones but not those that run deeper. I had to read in spurts but someday I'll read it again, uninterrupted, and perhaps I'll see more. I saw a BUNCH of similarities between the Soviet Union and what we have in America at the moment, but those weren't written into the novel, just socialist commonalities.

This point about “socialist commonalities” is the inevitable cultural degradation and economic chaos and political corruption that arises from allowing an overweening state that attacks its most productive citizens. That may seem obvious to some, but our world sees a vile recrudescence of socialist politics, so the failure of socialism is far from obvious to Bernistas and Corbynistas. We have the same problem in Australia with polls indicating a socialist victory in our next federal election, which is incomprehensible to me.
The other great book that discusses these deep themes is Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand, exploring the implications of a communist revolution in the USA and the centrality of individual freedom to economic advance. We had an interesting discussion here at atlas-shrugged-by-ayn-rand-f202.html although Mr A was something of an extremist.

KindaSkolarly wrote: Thank you Robert for recommending the book.

Glad you could read it, and only wish more people would follow your example. I found The Master and Margarita[i/] extremely readable, interesting, engaging and important in its messages and relevance to the world today.

I would find it very interesting if you could expand on how you see Bulgakov using framing devices. We recently discussed the sparrow, which appears in the Christ chapter and then again later. I think Bulgakov is masterful at preparing for introduction of new plot points, and suspect he does so in ways the reader is unlikely to notice. I found the weaving together of the various subplots worked extremely well, since I remember in other Russian novels my head would spin with all the names. Maybe it is the vivid way Bulgakov describes all his characters that makes them memorable, and a pleasure to meet again when they have been absent for a few chapters. Even Mr W.

By framing devices I mean techniques used to present stories. Like the novel within a novel. I've seen that device used in other books, but never so nicely handled at the end. Framing devices, mechanics. I look at how fiction is put together. I look so intently that I often lose track of what's being communicated, more interested in method than message. It can be a problem. I think I do it because I write fiction and am interested in how others tell their stories. Structure comes first, then message. Without a proper skeleton you end up with a misshapen blob that can be hard to identify.

But now that I know HOW Bulgakov put together his novel, I'll go back someday and read it so that I can understand WHY he put it together.

At any rate, I'm currently banging my head against "The Precessional Structure of Time." My evening's reading, maybe tomorrow's as well. I'm surprised that I actually understand some of it. I may have a couple of questions after, will post them over on that thread.

This quality discussion is happening in the "Check in" thread and not where the majority of people looking for discussion about this book will see it. If there was an easy way for me to move these posts over to a new or different thread I would. Hmmm

All I can do is suggest that you guys talk amongst yourselves and agree to create a new thread within this forum and carry the conversation there so that newcomers will see the thread title and possibly enter the discussion. They may never click on a thread with the title: Check in here if you plan to join the discussion of "The Master and Margarita"

Then again if you like it in this cold, dark lonely thread...

Chris OConnor wrote:This quality discussion is happening in the "Check in" thread and not where the majority of people looking for discussion about this book will see it. If there was an easy way for me to move these posts over to a new or different thread I would. Hmmm

All I can do is suggest that you guys talk amongst yourselves and agree to create a new thread within this forum and carry the conversation there so that newcomers will see the thread title and possibly enter the discussion. They may never click on a thread with the title: Check in here if you plan to join the discussion of "The Master and Margarita"

Then again if you like it in this cold, dark lonely thread...

Thanks Chris.

There are different ways people find discussions. This appears in the sidebar list of most recent comments, and in the location that I mostly use, "View Active Topics".

As well, if people go to the Master and Margarita forum, they will see the number of replies and views.

This thread has 1956 views and 14 replies, well above any other thread in the forum, except, inexplicably, Chapter 13, Enter the Hero, which despite only one reply has more than 2000 views. Must be those Russian spybots.

Loved that book. Seems to sag and confuse in the middle like all the Russian books I seem to read but very charming. Gogol is still my favorite.

Mr. President! I miss you.

President Camacho wrote:Loved that book. Seems to sag and confuse in the middle like all the Russian books I seem to read but very charming. Gogol is still my favorite.

Hey Pres, I gave my copy back to my aunty at my dad's funeral two weeks ago, and will have to put the hard word on a friend who I lent a spare copy to, as I am just getting up to the totally craziest bit, where Margarita turns into an invisible witch and wreaks bitter revenge on the corrupt literatchik who stopped The Master/Bulgakov from publishing his book about Jesus. Right in the middle, and more bounce than sag. Sorting my library, have just rediscovered a gem, Bulgakov's Manuscripts Don't Burn, buried in detrital rubble.

Hey Chris.

Sorry to hear about that Tulip. Just going off my impression from over 10 years ago regarding the book. It was a fun read, though. The mischief was a joy. I should reread.