Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:43 am





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 
What do you mean, "two comes after one"? 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Tenured Professor

BookTalk.org Moderator

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3564
Location: Michigan
Thanks: 1321
Thanked: 1150 times in 843 posts
Gender: Male

Post What do you mean, "two comes after one"?
The folks at numberphile tackle the number line and how to measure distances between numbers.



Look at that face...
Simon Pampena is enthusiastic about numbers.

http://www.numberphile.com/videos/number_line_2.html

Watch these two videos, they are very interesting, then comment.


So where does the disconnect come between the real world and our number constructs?

Personally, i blame fermions and the pauli exclusion principle.


_________________
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Have you tried that? Looking for answers?
Or have you been content to be terrified of a thing you know nothing about?

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?

Confidence being an expectation built on past experience, evidence and extrapolation to the future. Faith being an expectation held in defiance of past experience and evidence.


Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:38 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Tenured Professor

BookTalk.org Moderator

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3564
Location: Michigan
Thanks: 1321
Thanked: 1150 times in 843 posts
Gender: Male

Post Re: What do you mean, "two comes after one"?
I'm no expert at this at all, but i do like to think about this stuff.

I don't think it's possible to remove 3.5 if your number line goes to 4.
When there is no correlation to things with physical dimensions, what could be meant by "remove" 3.5?

Doesn't 3.5 exist definitionally because you have created a space between 3 and 4 built of units of 1?

To remove 3.5 you would have to end your number line before 3.5.

Numbers can be completely dimensionless when talking about a mathematical number line, but the same could never be said of a ruler. Rulers are things that exist in space which we use to gauge distance in space between real things. We can call any single place in space a "point" but that is an approximation. There is a granularity to reality which we can't seem to get past. You can talk about dividing a wooden ruler and trying to get to the "point" at 3.5 centimeters, but if you do that you may eventually end up at the last molecule which resides at the distance 3.5, but that molecule is granular. It has dimensions associated with it which can't be reduced any further.

It can be broken into it's constituent atoms, and those atoms can be reduced to the nucleus and you could try to look at one particular quark, but there is still a volume associated with that structure because it's a fermion. The world we interact with is made of such fermions and they have sizes. Points have no size whatsoever. So lets get rid of the fermions and just talk about space! You still have apparent granularity all the way down to the plank length.

I think what this is indicating is that numbers are an idealized construct which approximate reality, but which are not reality.

Like saying 1 apple plus 1 apple is 2 apples. You are dealing in approximations. You've labeled two objects in space "apple" and in the context of 1+1=2, that means by definition that you've completely equated the two apples to be identical.

But if you label one apple 1, you will find after careful scrutiny that the second apple does not =1. It might only be 95% the mass of the first apple.

1 apple plus another "1" apple would actually be 1.95 by that measurement. But there are other comparisons you could make which would change that outcome!

So when you mentally label two objects in space as both being equivalent to "1 apple" you have made a very sloppy approximation (as far as math is concerned), but a necessary approximation to deal with reality as it is. You have built a concepts to represent the object and added the labels together, not the actual objects.

We can do this because our error margins are so large. That is to say, we don't readily appreciate that there's a difference between the two apples of 5% of mass. That difference is too small for us to change our assesment of the two objects. But if we were ants and found that missing 5% of apple mass lying around somewhere, that would be quite a score!

Everything in the real world is proportional, and we as real objects with senses make approximations that fit inside our sloppy error margins.

What do you think?


_________________
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Have you tried that? Looking for answers?
Or have you been content to be terrified of a thing you know nothing about?

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?

Confidence being an expectation built on past experience, evidence and extrapolation to the future. Faith being an expectation held in defiance of past experience and evidence.


Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:01 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Announcements 

• Promote Your Fiction Book on BookTalk.org
Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:33 pm

• Promote Your Non-Fiction Book on BookTalk.org
Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:18 pm



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
How To Promote Your Book





BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2019. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank