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Deepak Chopra's review of MAGIC OF REALITY 
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Post Re: Deeprok Chopra's review of MAGIC OF REALITY
etudiant wrote:
Let's be realistic here fellows. Chopra is a businessman. He makes his money by keying into the perceived (accurately it would seem) spiritual needs, desires, and fantasies of those today that are intellectually constrained, emotionally in need, or perhaps simply bored with existence, and hoping that there was going to be more. His is the discourse of the used car salesman, one that seems to offer hope and benefit, but when deeply analyzed, a couple of days after the encounter, one finds skilled language, but little substance.

Just to say. etudiant, in what I hope is fairness, that people on both sides of these questions are making money, and I don't think it's easy to fault them on that basis. Talent will sometimes pay off in that way, and whether we believe these public figures are exploiting the public for profit or doing them a valuable service often depends on our receptivity to their message.



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Mon May 27, 2013 3:53 pm
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Post Re: Deeprok Chopra's review of MAGIC OF REALITY
ant wrote:
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But what about the passage above that geo quoted? You complain about others not supporting their claims, but you're constantly stating that Dawkins et al preach that science has solved all mysteries,


What about it?
That is not a claim that because there is mystery, God must exist. Perhaps you and Geo believe that is what is being implied. But again I say that is a simplistic analysis of his argument, which in this particular case is in fact not an argument at all for the existence of God, but rather serves as an exemplar that certain questions Science can not address - PERIOD.

I don't "complain." I direct it to the attention of those that try to pass off opinions as FACT, including some of Dawkins work.

Please show me where I've said that Dawkins has claimed "science has solved all mysteries."


"Maybe his point is simply that Science does not have all the answers; something that men like Dawkins make a lot of money preaching that it can."

I think having all the answers is reasonably close to solving all the mysteries. The Dawkins passage showed some proper humility about what science has made known. You puzzle me with your interpretation of why I asked you about the passage. Of course no one would take it as a claim that God exists, only that if one wants to feed on mystery, science can be as good a place as any.

Doesn't the heart of your objections to Dawkins have to do with taboo violation? I understand this; it's natural to react with alarm to violation of the taboo against expressing disbelief in God. But what else can explain the fact that presenting or arguing for religious world views is seen as merely par for the course and unexceptionable, while expressing or arguing for a non-religious worldview is singled out as an arrogant attack?



Mon May 27, 2013 4:41 pm
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Post Re: Deepak Chopra's review of MAGIC OF REALITY
Chopra is a charlatan. His claim that "chemicals flying across synapses produce the entire world" is a myth that illustrates the constructivist idealism at the heart of faith. Faith says we can invent our world. By dressing up religious faith in scientific language Chopra taps into a constituency who recognise that spirituality is central to human identity.

That constituency is sincere, but Chopra promotes an unhealthy disrespect for science. A brief internet search turned up the fact that Chopra gives moral comfort to campaigners against vaccination. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/rat ... al-fallaci This is the pointy end of Chopra's deluded attacks on Dawkins - Chopra promotes irrational stupidity. If you "create your world" in which vaccines cause autism, you promote the spread of measles.

I do not respect Chopra. He fails to see that it should be philosophically possible to understand the psychological need to construct a world while also respecting the scientific understanding of reality. These are not exclusive as Chopra presents them.

Dawkins by contrast provides a coherent foundation for real understanding. I do disagree with Dawkins on some matters of interpretation, regarding his own scientific construction of the world, and will come back to those later. But unlike Chopra, Dawkins presents a solid foundation to understand reality, and any discussion of Dawkins' work should be within a framework of respect.



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Last edited by Robert Tulip on Mon May 27, 2013 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon May 27, 2013 5:52 pm
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Post Re: Deepak Chopra's review of MAGIC OF REALITY
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Doesn't the heart of your objections to Dawkins have to do with taboo violation?


Actually it doesn't, if I understand what you're asking here.
And if I do, it's utterly flabbergasting as to how far off base you are.
It's a conversation killer as well.

I'm surprised.



Mon May 27, 2013 6:36 pm
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Post Re: Deeprok Chopra's review of MAGIC OF REALITY
DWill wrote:
etudiant wrote:
Let's be realistic here fellows. Chopra is a businessman. He makes his money by keying into the perceived (accurately it would seem) spiritual needs, desires, and fantasies of those today that are intellectually constrained, emotionally in need, or perhaps simply bored with existence, and hoping that there was going to be more. His is the discourse of the used car salesman, one that seems to offer hope and benefit, but when deeply analyzed, a couple of days after the encounter, one finds skilled language, but little substance.

Just to say. etudiant, in what I hope is fairness, that people on both sides of these questions are making money, and I don't think it's easy to fault them on that basis. Talent will sometimes pay off in that way, and whether we believe these public figures are exploiting the public for profit or doing them a valuable service often depends on our receptivity to their message.


I disagree DWill. I believe we can and should fault those whose intent is to make money by exploiting the credulous, the vulnerable, and those intellectually or emotionally unprepared. Or course, we could inject some subjectivity here, but I put it to you directly: which message may present the most potential harm to the adherent? Which the least? Which one would seem to be more about personal gain, and which about sincere conviction, given your knowlege of human nature?

Chopra has decided to make his living in this fashion, and he is pursuing it to a degree of corporate effeciency that would make the Buddha, or other true spiritual figure, be tempted to gloat over their relative volume of karma accrued in comparison. It is flash an bling, and difficulty later coherently explaining things in front of an astute interviewer, as we had a taste of the above clip. In a sense we can say that this is talent, one that Barnam and Baily might have admired, but I'd say not the sort of talent that enriches the human experience. Take a look at those two faces in the clip. You have, I believe DWill, some professional experience in human behavior, yes? I can tell you what I saw: sincerity and defense.

Dawkins, on the other hand, has already had a succesful career in science, and also lives in a country where having a bucket of money is not essential for wellbeing, although I'd guess he isn't a pauper. If he wanted to just be rich, then playing to the masses would be the way to go. Most people, in fact, profess some sort of metaphysical/religious belief. So by writing books that debunk this, it seems to me that he is actually taking rather a risk, and certainly not assembling the formula to get rich.


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Mon May 27, 2013 7:35 pm
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Post Re: Deepak Chopra's review of MAGIC OF REALITY
ant wrote:
Quote:
Doesn't the heart of your objections to Dawkins have to do with taboo violation?


Actually it doesn't, if I understand what you're asking here.
And if I do, it's utterly flabbergasting as to how far off base you are.
It's a conversation killer as well.

I'm surprised.

Could you respond to something in my post or ask for clarification? Your emotional reaction to it isn't a response, ant. Isn't your deep offendedness the conversation killer?



Mon May 27, 2013 8:31 pm
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Post Re: Deepak Chopra's review of MAGIC OF REALITY
Thanks DWill

im not deeply offended by anything posted here.
Now, please clarify.
And there is no need to inject cryptic phrases. Just shoot as straight as you can.



Mon May 27, 2013 10:39 pm
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