So it's all about imprinting now? Programming. Just as we are being told how intelligent and empathetic dolphins and Bonobo's are suddenly they're so stupid they think humans are second order dolphins.Interbane wrote:Flann wrote:
"It may pay an organism to help another if there is an expectation of the favour being returned in the future. The cost of helping by the likelihood of the return benefit."
In the case of dolphins hazarding their lives,survival and genes reproduction to save humans, how does this fit Triver's 'explanation'.
Social groups aren't as simplistic as you're imagining. Take the studies on second order alliances of bottlenose dolphins in shark bay. There is little chance the recipient of an altruistic deed will be able to repay the favor. But when considered in aggregate, the favors are repaid all the time. This is the sense of accomplishment we get when we "pay it forward". It's looser than kin altruism, but is still altruism. Many people conceptualize it as karma. But it's game theory.
All it would take to imprint on a dolphin enough to be considered part of a second order alliance is playing with them, which many humans do.
You can believe all the ad hoc excuses of the econo-biologists if you like.
And the soldier who falls on a grenade to save his comrades? Expecting future reciprocation no doubt. Yes he knows they'll probably buy him lunch later. Just watch those goalposts move now.
Well no it's for the common good of humanity's genes. Even though he was previously shooting opposing human soldiers to wipe out their future gene's prospects.
They're so fixated on genes they forget people do these things for other real living breathing people,not their genes.
These theorists seem to know much more about animal behaviour than those with real contact with them.
E.O.Wilson is almost certainly right in ditching kin selection. He probably spent too much time on ants and bees and could do with looking at other animals.
Do elephants have souls?
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publicati ... have-souls