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Why Richard Dawkins is not a scientist and the least selfish survive and thrive.

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Interbane

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Re: Why Richard Dawkins is not a scientist and the least selfish survive and thrive.

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That's a good article, a good find. I wonder if he has an essay or book of his more recent thoughts. The idea of group selection is interesting.
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Re: Why Richard Dawkins is not a scientist and the least selfish survive and thrive.

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I agree. Very interesting:
he reproductive division of eusocial animals into breeding and non-breeding individuals has mystified biologists as far back as Charles Darwin. Why would some individuals give up their ability to procreate for the sake of others? In simple Darwinian terms, it doesn’t appear to make sense because a non-breeder would, by definition, not leave any offspring behind to pass on the non-breeding trait.
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Re: Why Richard Dawkins is not a scientist and the least selfish survive and thrive.

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He does have a newer book, from 2012, and it's about group selection.

http://www.amazon.com/Social-Conquest-E ... 0871403633
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Re: Why Richard Dawkins is not a scientist and the least selfish survive and thrive.

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One aspect of Richard Dawkin's use of science is how ideologically driven he is.He's always trying to demonstrate that nothing in nature could be intelligently designed.
So he says the human eye is badly "designed" (refuted many times) and he also made the junk d.n.a.argument. He made a brief if gory video of the dissection of a Giraffe expressly in order to demonstrate the "bad design" of the long necked giraffe's laryngeal nerve.
Gory as I say but here it is; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN74qV7SsjY

But is the laryngeal nerve of the long necked giraffe badly designed? By no means. http://www.weloennig.de/LaryngealNerve.pdf

More tall tales on the Giraffe involve a drawn illustration in his book "Climbing Mount Improbable" where the presumed ancestor of the Giraffe the Okapi is represented as way bigger and taller relatively than it really is.
Of course R.D. didn't draw the illustration but must share responsibility for using it in his book given how misleading it is.
On page 7 of the following p.d.f you can see this for yourself. It covers much more on the subject of the evolution of the long necked Giraffe by a critic of neo-Darwinism, W.E.de Loennig.
http://www.weloennig.de/Giraffe.pdf
Last edited by Flann 5 on Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why Richard Dawkins is not a scientist and the least selfish survive and thrive.

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It has been said more often recently that selfish genes can't account for eusociality in our species, ants, and a few others. It would seem that this high sociality is itself part of our genetic make-up, rather than being an entirely cultural construction that we oppose to our innate impulse to pass on copies of our genes. Dawkins, I think, believes we must struggle against the tide of our selfishness in order to create a humane world. Those like Wilson seem to say that we are by nature and genes at least as inclined to cooperate as we are to further our individual interests.

There was a 2-hour PBS program on Wilson just the other night.

http://www.pbs.org/program/eo-wilson/
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Re: Why Richard Dawkins is not a scientist and the least selfish survive and thrive.

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[Wilson] has once again poked a stick into the wasps’ nest of academia by publicly denouncing Hamilton’s inclusive fitness and the concept of kin selection.

“It was a mistake and I went along with it to begin with. But it’s finished. It’s over,” Wilson tells me, with a flick of his hand.
My understanding is that Wilson vastly overstates the acceptance of group selection among evolutionary biologists, correct me if I'm wrong. (I have no problem saying Dawkins is a science journalist, but criticism of him is pretty much irrelevant to this debate. He didn't convince scientists about how evolution works.)
Another problem with the bundling of human altruism, insect eusociality, and group selection is that insect eusociality itself is not, according to most biologists other than Wilson, explicable by group selection. But let's provisionally grant one part of the association for the sake of the empirical tests. The gene-centered explanation of eusociality depends on the relatedness of sterile workers and soldiers to a small number of queens who are capable of passing along their genes, and of course that reproductive system is absent from human groups. Nonetheless, according to this argument, humans are like bees in contributing to the welfare of their community. Since the gene-centered theory of insect eusociality cannot apply to humans, perhaps it is unnecessary to explain bees either. In that case, the most parsimonious theory would explain both human altruism and insect eusociality with group selection.

So for the time being we can ask, is human psychology really similar to the psychology of bees? When a bee suicidally stings an invader, presumably she does so as a primary motive, as natural as feeding on nectar or seeking a comfortable temperature. But do humans instinctively volunteer to blow themselves up or advance into machine-gun fire, as they would if they had been selected with group-beneficial adaptations? My reading of the study of cooperation by psychologists and anthropologists, and of the study of group competition by historians and political scientists, suggest that in fact human are nothing like bees.

The huge literature on the evolution of cooperation in humans has done quite well by applying the two gene-level explanations for altruism from evolutionary biology, nepotism and reciprocity, each with a few twists entailed by the complexity of human cognition.
http://edge.org/conversation/the-false- ... lection#sb
While logically and theoretically possible, when group selection does work it can be shown to be equivalent to gene-level selection, usually acting through interactions between individuals. It is thus more fruitfully modeled—and explained—by gene- and individual-centered explanations that often involve “inclusive fitness”
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.co ... selection/
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Re: Why Richard Dawkins is not a scientist and the least selfish survive and thrive.

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I do accept that the eusociality of humans and bees is genetically based, so in that way bees and humans are similar. Group selection vs individual or gene selection is a controversy I can't pretend to understand, but eusociality might not depend on a species having undergone group selection.

It's hard to imagine group selection working in the context of current human society, with groups being without rigid boundaries or stable memberships. But in the many thousands of years of the infancy of the species, perhaps groups had a lot more permanence and could evolve through selection of the genes that would contribute to the group's success.
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Re: Why Richard Dawkins is not a scientist and the least selfish survive and thrive.

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Ive always felt there-s more going on than what the current religious-like evolutionary orthodoxy claims.
It makes zero sense in old paradigmatic theory for a gene carrier to sacrifice their fertility for "the good" of the collective.

We can guess all we want as to why this is, without testability its just that - another guess about why Nature is what it is.
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Re: Why Richard Dawkins is not a scientist and the least selfish survive and thrive.

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It makes zero sense in old paradigmatic theory for a gene carrier to sacrifice their fertility for "the good" of the collective.
The selfish gene concept does make sense on this front, but there are other issues with it.

To say a gene is selfish means its inherent information exists because it fosters itself. But the information doesn't just exist in one organism. Twins, for example, have nearly identical information. So when a twin protects the other twin, the information is protected, fostered forward.

With my brothers and sisters, they share a good portion of my genetic information. Selfless acts on my part are in fact not selfless, I'm protecting information that we have in common. A lone wolf protecting the pack is protecting his genetic information, or at least the information that his pack mates have which he shares. Not 100%, but enough to warrant sacrifice.

But this is overly simplistic. People's bonds are far more complex than mere genetics accounts for. Perhaps genetics lays the foundation for how we go about bonding, but culture has a great deal of impact as well.
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