Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

This quote speaks of God choosing Jesus as a human sacrifice to take our just punishment for our sins. Dogma says that we cannot redeem ourselves from God condemnation. 1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement as judge and shows the setting and accepting of a bribe or human sacrifice to corrupt his justice. That justice usually stated that only the punishment of the guilty was acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent. The corruption of God’s usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

Recognizing that by whatever name you would use, sacrifice, ransom, bribe or payment, would you say such an immoral request and legal injustice would most likely be demanded by a God or by a Satan?

If punishing the innocent is not a just and moral thing to do, I would say that Satan would be the one to ask or demand such a sacrifice.

That would have Satan ruling heaven and not God as a good God would not do such an immoral thing.

Do you agree that Satan is more likely to ask for us to accept an immoral human sacrifice to bail us out than God would?

If you agree, does that indicate that Satan was ruling in heaven and not God on that day?

Regards
DL

Once again I am compelled to caution BT members not to get sucked into the doctrine espoused by GB.

His premise is addressed and obliterated in this video . There is no specific transcript of the video but the material in the video is virtually identical to the book Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist.

IOW, you think it good justice to punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

As long as the innocent is not you. Right?

Thanks for showing your Christian morals.

You also ignore that Jews do not recognize Jesus as their messiah.

Regards
DL

Innocent of what?

Punished how?

Which Jews do/did not accept Jesus as the Messiah? Do you mean Saul? or the Pharisees of the School of Anna's? or the secular Jews of the First Century Jerusalem who spent more time fighting each other during the siege of Jerusalem in the late 60's AD than preparing to defend against the Romans? Or perhaps you mean the Jews before Pontius Pilate you voted for Barajas to be released instead of Jesus. Not the best moment for the Jews but then the crowd was full of hirelings. But, I call your attention to the Jews lining the road on Palm Sunday, they did acclaim Jesus as the Messiah.

stahrwe wrote:

Innocent of what?

Innocent of any wrong doing.

Punished how?

Punished with death by various means. The O.P. is clear as to what deats I am speaking of.

Which Jews do/did not accept Jesus as the Messiah? Do you mean Saul? or the Pharisees of the School of Anna's? or the secular Jews of the First Century Jerusalem who spent more time fighting each other during the siege of Jerusalem in the late 60's AD than preparing to defend against the Romans? Or perhaps you mean the Jews before Pontius Pilate you voted for Barajas to be released instead of Jesus. Not the best moment for the Jews but then the crowd was full of hirelings. But, I call your attention to the Jews lining the road on Palm Sunday, they did acclaim Jesus as the Messiah.

All Jews who do not call themselves Christians.

The Jewish messiah was to live and rule. Not die and never return.

Are you seriously denying that God did not kill and torture innocent children and babies?

Regards
DL

I do believe as a student of Yale theology that there are any innocents born on earth. Satan may come to and fro in front of throne of God, but has no place there(thus no decisions made by him). This is a true war between the sons of darkness against son of light. The one who has no sin and a innocent gave his life to die with our sins on him, be able to go to the depths of hell and overcome death. God gave is only son for this on earth, once and for all for those who believe. Not all will believe, for all do not have their eyes open for faith by God. Ultimately full control over everything is for God to decide if you will ever have a soul that can be redeemed or even have a soul.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:If punishing the innocent is not a just and moral thing to do, I would say that Satan would be the one to ask or demand such a sacrifice.

Punishing the innocent is clearly not just. God sacrificing his own son is also clearly not just. In fact sacrificing any person or animal is definitely NOT just. Great thinking so far. But whoa there a second.

But hold up a second. So if God wasn't acting just than we should blame Satan? How about we don't attribute anything, just or unjust, to these mythological beings (God and Satan) and just accept that the humans that wrote those ancient stories were where the flaws, mistakes and contradictions existed.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:That would have Satan ruling heaven and not God as a good God would not do such an immoral thing.

Satan doesn't exist so Satan cannot rule heaven. And heaven doesn't exist either. This is like arguing that Santa is in charge of the Toy Shop at the North Pole.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Do you agree that Satan is more likely to ask for us to accept an immoral human sacrifice to bail us out than God would?

I agree that IF God exists and he is even remotely good he wouldn't sacrifice his own son to himself to save his other kids from his own wrath. That's downright nutty. But yes I agree that killing an innocent is something an evil being would do not a loving and just being. (But God and Satan are mythological beings so it feels weird talking about what they would and wouldn't do.)

Gnostic Bishop wrote:If you agree, does that indicate that Satan was ruling in heaven and not God on that day?

No, because a mythological being cannot rule a mythological place.

Wow. It seems that you are trying to prove things that will never have proof.

Mat 12:38 says it all. Some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Jesus, "Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you."
He said to them in reply, "An evil and unfaithful generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah the prophet.

I think the whole bases for Christianity and any other religion is faith. Find your answers, not someone else.

Even if you believe that the authors of the Gospels could be flawed, (which of course they where) the message is God inspired. If you are unsure of the existence of God, stop the debate. If he wants you, there is nothing you can do to stop believing. I think the problem here is you don't think he wants you. Maybe that is true.

In fact, the animal sacrifices were not for God they were a physical reminder of the penalty for sin. There were other types of sacrifices as well which did not involve animals but the whole point was that sin brings separation from God.

As for Jesus, God did not sacrifice His son in the sense that the animals were sacrificed. Jesus was not sacrificed in the Temple. He was not killed by a priest. His blood was not poured out on an altar. His body was not butchered and eaten. Furthermore, Jesus went willingly to be sacrificed as the death penalty for all mankind. God sacrificed Himself.

Lisa,

That's what your theology education taught you? How sweet.

So God probably doesn't want me because if he did I'd have no choice but to be a believer.

God clearly thinks I'm not worth his time. What a wonderful dad he turned out to be.