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where should we go from here?

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Frank 013
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Re: A supposed quick reply

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NiallYou have hit on a topic that is a real peeve of mine, American stupidity.Any one who knows me will tell you I am fond of saying "Common sense is not that common." Most Americans are decedent, and content with their personal state of affairs and do not bother to get involved in politics or corrective government. They were told their party line by their parents and go to the polls and vote that way for better or worse.They see these criticisms as an attack on their character without ever realizing that some of the remarks are true. You are pissing off Americans and they do not even know why you are upset, further more, they will never bother trying to find out. The horrible truth is that most college graduates today haven't even acquired an education that is equal to what I had acquired by the time I left high school.Than of course there are people like me who considered the invasion of Iraq as unfinished business. I feel that because we had the right to it we should do it. Twelve years of lies and resistance from Saddam and no corrective action from the UN was just sickening. I believe it is our duty to bloody evil men when we find them. I really don't care what Bush's agenda was, we did a good thing when we ousted Saddam, and I am glad we did it.If everything goes well we should see a dramatic troop reduction in Iraq this year. Than maybe Iran! (Just kidding) but it would not surprise me. Later
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Frank 013
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Re: Iraq or not to Iraq

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I'm sure this is all somehow bushes fault. I have no idea how but it must be true. Edited by: Frank 013 at: 2/22/06 5:09 pm
ADO15

Re: Iraq or not to Iraq

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Maybe Daddybush. _________________________________________________________Il Sotto Seme La Neva
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Frank 013
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Re: Iraq or not to Iraq

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[ADO15: Maybe Daddybush.]Wow, your distain is similar to that of a Muslim fanatic; you can't even focus it at one administration. But I suppose that in your book all republicans are evil scum. Later
MadArchitect

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Re: Iraq or not to Iraq

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And thus ends my essay on "Why I Dislike Political Debate." Thank you. Concessions will now be served in the Atrium area. Please, no pushing.
ADO15

Re: Iraq or not to Iraq

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No, not just Republicans - all corrupt capitalist administrations that intervene ruthlessly in others affairs no matter what the cost in lives. Guess that includes Clinton, Carter & Kennedy too. _________________________________________________________Il Sotto Seme La Neva
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Frank 013
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Re: Iraq or not to Iraq

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[ADO15: all corrupt capitalist administrations that intervene ruthlessly in others affairs no matter what the cost in lives.]So... all politicians then.
ADO15

Re: Iraq or not to Iraq

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Quite like ChavezAnd Evo MoralesAnd the new Chilean President - can't remember her name.And, historically, there's Kenneth Kaunda, Salvador Allende, Aung San, Nelson Mandela, Sam Nujoma...And if we go beyond leaders, there's Tony Benn, Michael Foot, Dennis Skinner, Peter Heathfield, R Palme Dutt, James Maxton, Phillip Snowden, Eric Heffer and many others.Mind you, with the exceptions of Rev Dr Martin Luther King Jr, and possibly Frederick Douglass, i can't think of an honourable US politician. I rack my brains, but I can't. _________________________________________________________Il Sotto Seme La Neva
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Frank 013
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Re: Iraq or not to Iraq

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[ADO15: I can't think of an honourable US politician. I rack my brains, but I can't.]I will have to agree with you here. Ever since the US began creating career politicians things have gotten progressively worse.Almost every voter (no matter what party line they follow) agrees that they are attempting to choose the lesser of evils.Later
lanceman1971

Re: Iraq or not to Iraq

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I think we suffer from a few core problems here. The first is the use of generalizations that most of the time are inaccurate. This concept that you can take a difficult problem such as the war in Iraq and say that it is because of one thing is rediculous. I think the average american is grossly mis-informed from the media and is to lazy to spend more than a single hour researching a topic him/herself. You hear a sound bit, conform that soundbit to your personal opinions and then bam, there is your argument. This type of mentality is why middle class america is refered to as the herd.Another major point I think we all seem to be missing about Iraq and the war on terror is the real reason we are there and no it is NOT oil. No it's not freedom for Iraq's. Both are certainly part of it. During the Regan administration a paper was written by Paul Wolfawitz, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, George H Bush and several other Advisors pertaining to national security. The paper talked about the road ahead and the problems America would face. The largest portion of the document (189 page) was allocated to the middle east. The question was, in an area of the world that controls so much power (Religious Locations, Oil). How do you rationally deal with civilizations that are fanatical?The paper came up with a solution. You must control hte middle eastern belt and change those nations to rational democracy's, the middle eastern belt includes the following nations, Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran. If you control that region than the rest of the middle east will fall in line. If you look at those in power now you will see all those names with the exception of George H Bush. These men have all worked together on this issue for over 26 years and know the real score. But you can't just initiate this war over nothing. 9/11 was the catelyst they needed to proceed forward in creating a middle eastern belt of rational nations. They know it will take decades, these men are not stupid, they don't make decisions on sound bytes. They also know how to menuveur within the political spectrum. They knew that they had to move fast. Afghanistan was going to be easy to sell. But from there they would have to move quickly into Iraq. They knew people would get sick of it, that the American public would quickly forget about 9/11. It's what we do, we want immediate gratification and if we can't get it we move on. The American middle class is the largest group of boobs that exist in the world today. Iran will take care of itself, they are so fanatical that they will continue to push us until the easily swayed american public agrees to finally do something about them. Or they will bomb us with a nuclear weapon smuggled in through some terrorist faction. I fear that is what it will take for America to stick to its guns.We are so proud of our selves in the Western world, we think we have evolved so far. But we really haven't, not just us but the world around us as well. You can't isolate yourself on the planet and expect to prosper, that is a fools game. We must continue to eliminate fanatical thinkers both at home and abroad and eliminate fanatical nations. I don't mean kill everybody, I simply mean eliminate these people from positions of power. We will be in this fight for decades. America will get hit again I garuntee it. Because we will need to in order to continue to follow through with this cause. Pulling our troops our and staying home will not solve the problem. God is the problem. Listen for the past 2000 year countries have tried to leave christian nations alone but that didn't stop their fanaticism from coming to your country and destroying you (ie America was conquered by fanatical christians). The western world is mostly run by moderates now, say what you want about bush, he is still moderate compared to middle eastern leaders. Until we address fanaticism and the world is run by moderate leaders we will have issues. It will take centuries people. We have addressed Europe and parts of Asia and North America, we still have central and south america to address almost all of africa, the middle east and southern asia. This will take centuries. Edited by: lanceman1971 at: 3/12/06 4:05 pm
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