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What is the dif between communism, socialism and liberalism?

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Dissident Heart

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Re: What is the dif between communism, socialism and liberal

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BadBuc: That (Lenin's Vanguard Bolshevic Leadership) describes the democratic elite.I think you are partially correct here. I agree that the Democratic party largely represents an elite base, but it is the same elite base that directs the Republican party: the tiny percentage of the population that runs industry and finance. The "Democratic Elite" are not the Vanguard as Lenin employed the term: the Democrats and Republicans are the puppets of this Vanguard, the owners and ruling class who direct both political parties. Where you are terribly mistaken is in thinking the Republican party is not subject to the will of this Vanguard body.
GOD defiles Reason

Re: What is the dif between communism, socialism and liberal

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Quote:BadBuc: Theoretically, Ted Kennedy would rather let a woman drown than give up his power or money. He is the marquee example of the liberal elitist.Is he, or is he not the face of liberalism?If so, then his nature is the ambassador for the liberal party which he represents. I think it was a fitting example for the topic. The topic is about the difference between the political views stated in Chris's first post. A man getting out of a car which is under water, no matter what party he is affiliated with, has more to do with saving one's own life. But since you're 42 years old, and you apparently know how to read and write, I bet you already knew that. Bush's policy of preemptive war has directly lead to the deaths of more than 2,100 American military personnel so far. Does this mean that George W. Bush is a murderer? Since Bush proclaims himself to be a Conservative, does this mean that all Conservatives are murderers? Is murdering American soldiers a Conservative philosophy? Well, I don't think so. Personally, I don't that would be relevant to the discussion. And it would uncivil to make those claims.However, I think it would be relevant to examine which political and/or economic system leads to the needless deaths of a number of our citizens.So which system would be considered to be responsible for a greater number of deaths? I know the first thing our troll, and other Coulter-Conservatives, would say something about Soviet Communist killing millions of their own people. But Communism in itself isn't any more responsible for those killings than Conservatism is for the slaughtering of Iraqis.
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Dissident Heart

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Re: What is the dif between communism, socialism and liberal

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One thing worth considering is the way Socialism has been interpreted during and since the advent of Soviet Communism.The Soviets appropriated the term Socialism as a way to steal the moral power of Socialism's demand that workers be the primary agents in their own lives and in the governance of their workplaces and communties. Thus, they called themselves Socialists as a way to hide their tyrannical oppressiveness.The US simply equated the term Socialism with Soviet tyranny and opression. Thus, any movement towards radical democracy in the workplace and economy became identified with Soviet abuses; any talk about organizing the workplace, demanding democratic accountability throughout our economic structures, was slandered as Stalinist apologetics.In both cases, the US and the Soviet Union abused the term "Socialism" to justify their own oppressive economic and political systems.
Izdaari

Re: What is the dif between communism, socialism and liberal

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Quote:Classical Liberalism asserts as its major idea an opposition to all but the most restrained and minimal forms of state intervention in personal and social life. This is rooted in a view of human nature as essentially freedom seeking, problem solving, creatively producing, progressively self-perfecting beings. Any political or religious structure that denies the full expression of this nature is tyrannical and despotic: to be rejected and fought against and overturned.I have some quibbles with that view of human nature, but Classical Liberalism, so described, is essentially my position. IMO, contempory liberals and even more so, socialists and communists, have gone sadly wrong in departing from it and embracing our enemy, the State. To the extent they do that, the difference between them is more of degree than of kind. Quote:The topic is about the difference between the political views stated in Chris's first post. A man getting out of a car which is under water, no matter what party he is affiliated with, has more to do with saving one's own life.Good point. I don't attribute Chappaqidick to Ted Kennedy's politics, but rather to his personal weakness and cowardice. Of course he could have similar personal failings no matter his politics, but whatever his politics, I wouldn't want a man with those failings to be President, or for that matter, my Senator. Edited by: Izdaari  at: 1/11/06 4:01 pm
Izdaari

Re: What is the dif between communism, socialism and liberal

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Quote:I reckon the same could be said for the current draft dodger in office. Makes it difficult to imagine that he would have any respect for a volunteer military.I don't at all agree re President Bush. He served honorably and well as a National Guild F-102 pilot. He was not however my first choice in the 2000 primaries; that was Rep. John Kasich (R-OH), who currently hosts the FNC show, Heartland.Quote:So is it your opinion that anyone who doesn't sit there and drown is a coward? Or does that only apply to Presidents and Senators?I don't hold it against Kennedy that he saved himself, but I do that he made no effort to save Ms. Kopechne, and that he failed to report until much later that she'd even been in the car, apparently thinking of his career first and her life second. If it wasn't weakness, it was ruthlessness, and that's not good either. Edited by: Izdaari  at: 1/11/06 4:14 pm
GOD defiles Reason

Re: What is the dif between communism, socialism and liberal

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I was thinking about things like polution, starvation, poverty related crimes and violence, when I posed that question. It's my opinion that these are issues that liberals raise when their rhetoric involves capitalism and economic policy.
GOD defiles Reason

Re: What is the dif between communism, socialism and liberal

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Quote:Mr P: Why are Conservatives like the lynch mob and BadBuc so angry? 'They' control the government and say they have a mandate? Is it possible that without the constant bashing (and this goes back to the Clinton years...these tactics started in force back then) of the implied "Leftist, Liberal" cabal, people would see that these self appointed 'saviors' of Democracy and champions of freedom are anything but?That's right. The bashing is a smoke screen. Disinformation intended to distract and confuse and induce hatred.But I think it's a mistake to think that they actually believe the liberal bashing rhetoric they spread.
GOD defiles Reason

Re: What is the dif between communism, socialism and liberal

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Quote:Izdaari: Good point. I don't attribute Chappaqidick to Ted Kennedy's politics, but rather to his personal weakness and cowardice. Of course he could have similar personal failings no matter his politics, but whatever his politics, I wouldn't want a man with those failings to be President, or for that matter, my Senator. I reckon the same could be said for the current draft dodger in office. Makes it difficult to imagine that he would have any respect for a volunteer military.So is it your opinion that anyone who doesn't sit there and drown is a coward? Or does that only apply to Presidents and Senators?
BadBuc99

Re: What is the dif between communism, socialism and liberal

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Quote:That's right. The bashing is a smoke screen. Disinformation intended to distract and confuse and induce hatred.But I think it's a mistake to think that they actually believe the liberal bashing rhetoric they spread.excuse me while I get a little upset.It's always the minorities that cry about the majority pointing out thier ideals as heresy. This country was not founded on the socialistic doctrines that the liberals today are trying to push down the american people's throat. It's not hate so much as it is alarm. The liberals bash America every chance they get. They side with France, Germany and the united nations, all of which hate America. The liberals want to hand over our soveriegnty to the united (corrupt) nations. They, (Kerry) falsely call our troops terrorists and demand that we give the actual terrorists American rights! They are allowed to piss on the bible that christians hold sacred, but we can't even spill a drop of water on thier worthless kuran. The liberals try to undermine democracy in the middle east simply because, if the republicans have success in thier efforts there, then they feel thier elite will never gain power again. They are anti-American in what they say and do.On top of that, the liberals tell me not to bash them for being anti-American! (They consider bashing, pointing out thier fallacies). How can anyone who loves this country, follow the liberals? My guess is that the majority of liberals just don't know what they're following. 4 Super Bowl Championships - 2005
GOD defiles Reason

Re: What is the dif between communism, socialism and liberal

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It appears that we have a winner. "They are anti-American in what they say and do."-BadBuc99 Sometimes a troll is just a troll.
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