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Was Jesus as described in the bible a jerk?

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Frank 013
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Was Jesus as described in the bible a jerk?

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I was reading through the quotes of Jesus after looking at the "Why won't god heal amputees" website and saw a section that makes a good claim that Jesus as described by the bible would be considered a jerk by today's standards. I will offer up the evidence and let you decide. Jerk: 1. an offensive term for somebody who is regarded as behaving foolishly.2. a "foolish, rude, or contemptible person"A hypocrite would certainly be described as a jerk so what about the so called perfect, sinless Jesus?"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven." He reiterates the message in Luke 6:26:"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.It is clear here that Jesus teaches us to love our enemies but how does he react to people who dislike him?"Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned" (To hell I presume.)Is this love of ones enemies? Heck you don't even have to be a real enemy, just don't accept Jesus as your lord and an eternity of fiery damnation awaits. That's Jesus' love for ya!This type of hypocrisy goes way beyond jerk if you ask me.If that's not good enough there is plenty more; a person who breaks their promise is a jerk. Lets see how Jesus handles this one...Mark 11:24: Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14 we see the same thing: I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. When someone says that they will give you whatever you ask for, giving the benefit of the doubt I would assume it to be limited by their means. But what are the limitations of god? If they are truly none, as Christians say, Jesus/god is going back on his word, hence he is a jerk. How about lying or telling untrue stories? These are clearly jerk qualities right? Certainly Jesus is above giving false testimony as written in the commandments.Well maybe not...Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. Wow! Considering that this is only possible on a flat earth this is obviously made up and untrue, again Jesus falls clearly into the jerk category.How about bigotry? Surly a loving sinless being would not fall victim to such a primitive ignorant position?A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." Jesus calls this woman a dog because she is a Canaanite; clearly this is a bigoted statement. now in Jesus' defense he did eventually help this woman but that does not negate his initial negative response. Any person of attention today that made such a statement would certainly be heavily scrutinized for the remark just look at Mel Gibson.So Jesus fails the bigotry test as well... the jerk. This type of thing goes on and on he "borrows" stuff without returning it, he has child like emotional outbursts, he kills a tree for not having fruit out of season (This one is the most jerk like in my opinion), and he contradicts himself over and over again regarding the requirements for getting into heaven. Even going so far as to say that believers must eat human flesh to get into heaven.Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." This act is (thankfully) being performed with bread and wine (sometimes grape juice) but it sounds more like a satanic ritual than a Christian one.Finally a misuse of power is very jerk like; Jesus could have done beautiful permanently helpful miraculous deeds. Instead he squandered his powers on healing people one at a time, turning water into wine. He could have cured disease, ended suffering of all sorts heck he could have ended much of the suffering caused by slavery just by using words alone. One clear passage from Jesus saying something like "free all slaves" or "slavery is forbidden in the eyes of the lord" would have saved millions from such a terrible fate. With all of the above material it is clear (in my opinion) that if Jesus lived and did any of these things he was indeed a first class jerk. Why anyone who acted like this would be revered and used as a roll model is beyond me.But I will leave you to your own conclusions.Later
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Re: Was Jesus as described in the bible a jerk?

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Hard-hitting stuff, this.
MaesterAuron151

Re: Was Jesus as described in the bible a jerk?

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The gospels were written a while after Jesus died.I'm not going to bother with a point by point rebuttle because Dissident Heart will eventually show up and totally out do me.Just as a note condemned doesn't necessaryily mean to hell.There are four different places a person can go to three of which you could be "condemned to", there is heaven and hell of course, but there is also purgatory in which people supposedly repent for the sins of their lives (although acording to dante its restricted for believers) and also Lymbo which is a seven walled city for the virtous nonbelievers, its not a hellish place just somewhat sad and a little booring. Edited by: MaesterAuron151 at: 1/13/07 4:07 pm
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Re: Was Jesus as described in the bible a jerk?

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MaesterAuronQuote:The gospels were written a while after Jesus died.I am not discussing their accuracy here (believe me we could dedicate a whole other book on the subject of inaccuracies) just weather the Jesus character is a Jerk as written.MaesterAuronQuote:I'm not going to bother with a point by point rebuttal because Dissident Heart will eventually show up and totally out do me.I would very much like to see what DH has to say on the subject, but I would like to hear your ideas here as well.MaesterAuronQuote:Just as a note condemned doesn't necessarily mean to hell.There are four different places a person can go to three of which you could be "condemned to", there is heaven and hell of course, but there is also purgatory in which people supposedly repent for the sins of their lives (although according to Dante its restricted for believers) and also Limbo which is a seven walled city for the virtuous nonbelievers, its not a hellish place just somewhat sad and a little boring.The Dante's inferno reference is not accurate either historically or is it accepted as Christian cannon. The historic problem is that the book Dante's Inferno was written in the renaissance and I seriously doubt that Jesus was making reference to it furthermore It was written as a fiction book. But even if Jesus wasn't talking about hell, isn't it still hypocritical to condemn someone to anything boring unpleasant or hellish, after teaching love your enemies and forgive all transgressions?Later Edited by: Frank 013 at: 1/14/07 1:26 am
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Re: Was Jesus as described in the bible a jerk?

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I mean, we do not even have to go past Mad's comments to see how silly you were to post this Frank.I am continually amazed at how Mad can total turn things around just by stating one simple phrase. I mean, I thought the bible was a bunch of out-dated crap, full of moral inconsistancies and misogynistic, racist crap, but now I see the light.Thanks Mad.Mr. P.(never pay attention to what it says...never pay attention to what it says...never pay attention......) Mr. P's place. I warned you!!!Mr. P's Bookshelf.I'm not saying it's usual for people to do those things but I(with the permission of God) have raised a dog from the dead and healed many people from all sorts of ailments. - AsanaThe one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper
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Frank 013
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Re: Was Jesus as described in the bible a jerk?

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Mr. PQuote:I am continually amazed at how Mad can total turn things around just by stating one simple phrase. I mean, I thought the bible was a bunch of out-dated crap, full of moral inconsistencies and misogynistic, racist crap, but now I see the light.Ahhh more sarcasm I do think you might have misread Mad here, I do not presume to put words in his mouth but he does not believe that stuff any more than we do. But unlike us he just does not see any harm in believing it.Considering the short response I think I might have made him think... Maybe? Later
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Re: Was Jesus as described in the bible a jerk?

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Mad has offered defense for the bible in the past. I just want to know what I am missing by not being a biblical scholar! I keep hearing that phrase...Although, after reading the Dawkins book, I am considering raising the bible discussion from the dead (still born as it was)...but I am not sure I want Mad, Dissident or any of the other thiests picking and choosing the readings. I am not even totally sure I want to waste my time at all actually...but I am thinking about it. I even pulled out my bible yesterday.Basically, I would like someone to answer my post in the Dawkins forum: what about the incest and giving away of daughters for gang bang sex to avoid confilct (oops! There I go using aggressive, inconsiderate words again...maybe I should say "Offering my young daughter to the pleasures of others" there, that makes it better).Mr. P. Mr. P's place. I warned you!!!Mr. P's Bookshelf.I'm not saying it's usual for people to do those things but I(with the permission of God) have raised a dog from the dead and healed many people from all sorts of ailments. - AsanaThe one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy PiperEdited by: misterpessimistic  at: 1/14/07 8:11 pm
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Re: Was Jesus as described in the bible a jerk?

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Mr. PQuote:What about the incest and giving away of daughters for gang bang sex to avoid conflict (oops! There I go using aggressive, inconsiderate words again...maybe I should say "Offering my young daughter to the pleasures of others" there, that makes it better).I think that's where you and I disagree with most Christians, there is no making it better; the bible is a horrid book. The hard part is getting Christians to see that fact.Later
MaesterAuron151

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Quote:I am not discussing their accuracy here (believe me we could dedicate a whole other book on the subject of inaccuracies) just weather the Jesus character is a Jerk as written.Are you taking into account different authors even?Quote:I would very much like to see what DH has to say on the subject, but I would like to hear your ideas here as well.Well alright. I imagine DH's response will just be a much better and more accurate version of mine.Quote:The Dante's inferno reference is not accurate either historically or is it accepted as Christian cannon.Purgatory and lymbo are definitely christian concepts though.Quote:The historic problem is that the book Dante's Inferno was written in the renaissance and I seriously doubt that Jesus was making reference to it furthermore It was written as a fiction book.Fiction always is based off of some form of truth. Humans lack the ability to create something truely unique. Everything we do merely rearranges what's already there.Quote:But even if Jesus wasn't talking about hell, isn't it still hypocritical to condemn someone to anything boring unpleasant or hellish, after teaching love your enemies and forgive all transgressions?You can hurt people even if you love them. Parents punish children they love don't they? Love does not equate never doing harm. One of the points of the whole Jesus thing was to allow forgivness for the deceased. The Bible clearly states that Jesus decended into hell in order to free condemned souls.
MaesterAuron151

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Quote:If that's not good enough there is plenty more; a person who breaks their promise is a jerk. Lets see how Jesus handles this one...Mark 11:24:Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.Are we sure this isn't followed by a but? It doesn't specify when, you could receive most of these rewards postumously.Quote:In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14 we see the same thing:I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.I doubt this really means what it says. I assume there's more in the passage. This is one of the ones DH needs to go over my knowledge is just too limited.The best I can do is mention that the bible also forbids putting god to the test.Quote:How about lying or telling untrue stories? These are clearly jerk qualities right? Certainly Jesus is above giving false testimony as written in the commandments.Well maybe not...Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.Wow! Considering that this is only possible on a flat earth this is obviously made up and untrue, again Jesus falls clearly into the jerk category.I thought we were remaining within the confines of the bible. In the bible the world is flat.Or we could just mention that there's no mention of jesus haveing superior knowledge of geography. If an ancient person was shown the view of the land from the top of a high mountain, then told he was looking upon the whole world, I doubt he'd argue otherwise.Quote:How about bigotry? Surly a loving sinless being would not fall victim to such a primitive ignorant position?A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."That directly contradicts the theme of other passages. A vast amount of the bible involves Jesus helping and fratronizing with all sorts of "sinfull people" including Roman tax collectors, leppers, the blind. Plus there's the story of the good samaraton. As for bigotted statements, you have one. I think we can discount this as some medieval skin head type trying to justify some recent war.Quote:Jesus calls this woman a dog because she is a Canaanite; clearly this is a bigoted statement. now in Jesus' defense he did eventually help this woman but that does not negate his initial negative response.Actually he uses dog as an analogy.Any person of attention today that made such a statement would certainly be heavily scrutinized for the remark just look at Mel Gibson.Quote:This type of thing goes on and on he "borrows" stuff without returning it, he has child like emotional outbursts, he kills a tree for not having fruit out of season (This one is the most jerk like in my opinion), Thats odd since there's the story of the tree that bore no fruit?Quote:and he contradicts himself over and over again regarding the requirements for getting into heaven. Even going so far as to say that believers must eat human flesh to get into heaven.Are you reffering to the body of christ ritual? No believers must eat a little circular waffer to get into heaven.Quote:Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever."This act is (thankfully) being performed with bread and wine (sometimes grape juice) but it sounds more like a satanic ritual than a Christian one.Are you for real. First off there is no such thing as a legit satanist. Second its not saying you have to eat any human flesh its talking about just his. Third its blatantly a symbolic statement.Quote:Finally a misuse of power is very jerk like; Jesus could have done beautiful permanently helpful miraculous deeds. Instead he squandered his powers on healing people one at a time, turning water into wine. He could have cured disease, ended suffering of all sorts heck he could have ended much of the suffering caused by slavery just by using words alone. One clear passage from Jesus saying something like "free all slaves" or "slavery is forbidden in the eyes of the lord" would have saved millions from such a terrible fate.That goes into our exessive divine intervention discussion.
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