The Odyssey

[froglipz]

Ok...right up front, this is a homework assignment for my honors English class. I am not actually asking for anyone to write a paper for me, but I am not always perceptive enough about metaphors, hidden meanings, etc, so I was wondering if anyone here would be willing to discuss the book with me. I have finished the first through reading, and I am looking for good places to go back and look at. We are reading the Robert Fagles translation.

Any help you can give me would be awesome...

[GaryG48]

I'm in. This should be fun!
I have the Fagles translation somewhere around the house. I will go look for it and come back here.
One of the biggies is Telemachus' search early in the story when the Goddess disguises herself and chases him around the northern Med. I always thought Homer was doing the "coming of age" thing there.
More later.

[froglipz]

I think so too....it's like Athena is saying "You have been a baby sitting around here whining about these guys (the suitors) long enough, DO SOMETHING!" At least try to do something. I love how Athena pretty much convinces Zeus it's His idea to help out....

[GaryG48]

When it comes to symbolism, there is nothing like literary criticism to find symbols, wether they are there or not. Certianly, there is no regard for the author's intent. Anyway, here are a few tried and true symbols from the Odyssey.

The lotus-eaters and Circe are magic, but Ithaca is part of the human world. So, we can read the fantasies as Odysseus' struggle with human nature. Calypso, charms and seductions of the sea or of heroism and immortality as well as the sensual life. Scylll and Charybds is still around as "between a rock and a hard plance." Circe is actually the risk of letting your humanity be charmed away.

Penelopoe is, of course, faithfulness. The old Nurse is also faithfull, and wise.

Enough of symbolism. There is a lot of sea culture vs. land culture in The Odyssey. Of course, sea culture is "better" than land culture as we would expect from a poet of the Greek Isles. However, Menelaus and Netor, who are important in getting Odysseus home, represent land culture.

Which brings me to the biggy--civilization vs. barbarism. The Greeks thought themselves "above the barbarians" due to Greek refind culture, literature, heroism, and arete' (roughly, doing the right thing). In fact, the word in Greek is barbari--meaning people who make sounds like "bar-bar" (like dogs). Odysseus is going home to restore order. He will rescure his family and home from unwanted sutors (invaders). He stands for civilizaton's chance against barbarism. In all cases except one, he defeates mosters by wit and guile, not brut strength. "We Greeks are smarter than you Barbari." The exception is the lotus-eaters who tempt Odysseus with endless lazyness. Sloth is also a vice to the Greeks and Odysseus overcomes them and it through sheer strength of character.

There are some things to think about. None of them are origional with me but this is a place to start.

[froglipz]

Wow that helps a lot thanks

In class we were discussing how most of us thought the ending was a bit superfluous, really the story seems to end at Odysseus and Penelope's reunion, that is, after all what Odysseus has been seeking all of this time. Our professor says there may be a bigger story arc that we are overlooking, but I am not seeing it. I mean, unless the real point of the story is about the suitors and NOT about Odysseus and his family.....I just don't see a theme that extends the storyline the way it does.

Odysseus using his wits and making up lies to get past the monsters makes a lot of sense, he is supposed to be a well rounded hero, not the stereotypical "strong as an ox but dumb" but what was the point of him lying to the swineherd? He made up this whole long story about who he was and what he did, why couldn't he have said "I'm Bob the beggar and a bit down on my luck"? or whatever the ancient Greek equivalent for Bob is It didn't help even help sway the swineherd when he was trying to convince him that his master was indeed alive and would be returning soon.

I like how Odysseus spares the bard and the herald, and it is just typical that Telemachus would leave the armory door open, skewing the part of the plan where Odysseus is the only one armed.

If the story arc is about Athena instead (it is she who opens and closes the story) it is a pretty weak story, she is a constant throughout, helping him out, disguising him, herself, convincing her father to go along, getting him to command that Odysseus gets to go home so Poseidon will stop interfering. She is omnipresent, but not the main character...

[farmgirlshelley]

I love this book, and was just reading it for pleasure. Now it's due back to the library. I really should buy myself a copy.

[froglipz]

OK I think I am getting it, the second half of the story is actually about identity....mostly Odysseus'. He is the son of Laertes, the husband of Penelope, the father of Telemachus, master of Eumaeus, the king of Ithaca, a hero of the Trojan War, friend of so many, foe of others.

The story can't really end without Laertes seeing his son, that's what he has been mourning about for the entire duration of the book. I guess I can see some of the symbolism in Odysseus tongue lashing of his father, showing him how greatly he had debased himself, the father of the king, turned into a beggar by his own grief and apathy.

[GaryG48]

The story can't really end without Laertes seeing his son, that's what he has been mourning about for the entire duration of the book. I guess I can see some of the symbolism in Odysseus tongue lashing of his father, showing him how greatly he had debased himself, the father of the king, turned into a beggar by his own grief and apathy.

And when you put that into the context of Ancient Greek morality your observation is even more on point. The father of a king has responsibilities to the city-state; he must rise above the common emotions to be an example to others, especially others of lower rank.

[froglipz]

Any ideas on why Telemachus is so mean to his mother? Every time he speaks to or of her he is rough and rude....

[GaryG48]

1. It was a man vs. woman thing. Homer's audiance was used to men mistreating women
2. It was a family vs. community duty thing--something like Orestes murdering his mother, Clytemnestra
3. He was unhappy that she had not done more to discourage (send away) the sutors (my personal favorate explaination).