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House January 6 Committee hearings

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LanDroid

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House January 6 Committee hearings

The first hearing House hearing on the 1/6/21 attack on the Capital building was held last night. Here's a link if you want to watch the whole thing. On the right side there's a list of video clips showing various "points of interest."
https://www.c-span.org/video/?520282-1/ ... -committee

There were more than a few powerful moments.
  • Video of AG Barr calling claims the election was stolen "complete nonsense," "crazy stuff" and "BS,"
  • Video of Ivanka Trump agreeing with Barr's assessment.
  • Jared Kushner calls threats of resignations and other White House tactics to control Trump "whining."
  • Hundreds of Proud Boys and Oath Keepers started marching to the Capitol prior to Trump's speech to perform final reconnaissance and planning.
  • Video of VP Pence stating Trump was wrong.
  • New video of violence during the attack.
  • Liz Cheney calm and powerful.
  • A long list of topics that will be covered in future hearings.
The next three hearings have been scheduled.
2. Monday 6/13 at 10:00 am. EST
3. Wednesday 6/15 at 10:00 am. EST
4. Thursday 6/16 at 1:00 pm. EST
Last edited by LanDroid on Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Expanded hearing schedule.
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Robert Tulip

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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

I think it is important to analyse what is beneath the surface of these events. The dog whistle message from Trump is that he does not in the slightest care about facts and would like to be installed as a military dictator.

When there are economic and cultural pressures pushing in that authoritarian direction, pretending that he is operating within the conventional realms of reason and dignity ignore the real secret intent to overthrow institutions of state. Factors include the desire to continue the immense amount the US spends on the military and the concern that climate policy could force rapid decarbonisation of the economy.
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DWill

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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

Robert Tulip wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:06 am I think it is important to analyse what is beneath the surface of these events. The dog whistle message from Trump is that he does not in the slightest care about facts and would like to be installed as a military dictator.

When there are economic and cultural pressures pushing in that authoritarian direction, pretending that he is operating within the conventional realms of reason and dignity ignore the real secret intent to overthrow institutions of state. Factors include the desire to continue the immense amount the US spends on the military and the concern that climate policy could force rapid decarbonisation of the economy.
I'm not sure I understand your point on climate policy, Robert, but I agree that the appetite for democracy is fading in the U.S. Trump has probably taken advantage of that rather than created it. I can't really give the man credit for even that.

I associate with a few guys who ridicule these hearings. What about the Black Lives Matter riots, they say? What about Hillary Clinton? Hillary Clinton! We've known since day one that Trump is morally bankrupt (he was rated by historians as last among presidents for moral standing). The hearing again showed how he was willing to endanger the safety of his vice-president by setting the crowd--later the mob--against him. Even just after he was informed that Pence had to be led away from the Capitol, he tweeted his anger at Pence's lack of courage. Not a shred of concern that Pence came close to being attacked.

I have a new tactic for Democrats to use in the fall Congressional campaigns: soft-on-crime Republicans. They don't care about the crimes committed on January 6, by the rioters and likely by Trump himself. They don't care about unrestricted access to guns boosting the crime rate. The Democrats actually do need to focus more on crime, so my idea can fit into an overall strategy.
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Robert Tulip

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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

DWill wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:16 am I'm not sure I understand your point on climate policy, Robert,
What I was getting at was that if any government tried to increase the price of fossil fuels to the level that would be needed to reduce their usage enough to slow global warming, it would likely face a military coup. That is a big reason why I support geoengineering rather than emission reduction. Brightening the planet is the only climate policy that can gain genuine bipartisan support as cost effective and safe, despite its current marginal status.

Trump's view that climate change is a hoax is a great example of the Big Lie, calculated to generate an emotional frenzy by convincing supporters that their opponents are engaged in malicious conspiracy.
DWill wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:16 am but I agree that the appetite for democracy is fading in the U.S.
The fragility of US democracy is a key theme in Divided We Fall by David French, with the rise of contempt, disdain and hatred as political emotions that deny legitimacy to the views of opponents.

A number of commentators have compared the January 6 insurrection to Hitler's Munich Beer Hall Putsch of 1923, as priming the pump for a subsequent destruction of institutions of state.

An excellent wikipedia page worth reading on the putsch is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch

It is interesting that whereas Hitler was jailed for his abortive fiasco, Trump has continued to freely build his mass movement based on the Big Lie of the stolen election. While in jail, Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, and his high level military connections led authorities to treat him gently. Here is the extract from Mein Kampf on The Big Lie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie#H ... escription

Interestingly, Hitler's tactic, like Trump, was to falsely accuse his opponents of spreading Big Lies, while himself employing exactly that impudent method himself.
Adolf Hitler wrote:the principle – which is quite true within itself – [is] that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

Thanks for clarifying on climate. Also, that is a stunning parallel, Trump's and Hitler's Big Lies. Leave it to you to lay it out there.

Of one thing we can be sure--we won't be seeing as profound as exposition on psychology from Donald Trump. He operates entirely from instinct.
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearing # 2

The 2nd committee hearing was delayed by 45 minutes since the first witness had to rush home as his wife was going into labor. That delay screwed up the DVR taping so I missed about 45 minutes. Here are some of the highlights I saw, I'm sure there are others.
  • It seems most of Trump's top advisors at the time of the election and soon after did not believe there was evidence of fraud sufficient to affect the election. They told Trump so but he didn't listen. In the first hearing Ivanka sided with AG Barr. In this hearing Jared stated election fraud "is not the way I'd go if I were you." So even some family members were not hoodwinked.
  • Rudy Giuliani showed up late on the election night extremely intoxicated and wanted the President to declare he won. Trump did so shortly afterwards.
  • The "Red Mirage" was explained in advance to the team, but Trump misused it. (Initial votes in some states strongly pro-Trump, later moving towards Biden as mail in ballots counted.)
  • It appears the main reason Trump is so obstinate on the big lie is....wait for it....money! The committee listed large sums of money that accrued to Trump organizations as a result of these shenanigans.
  • Some of this information is not new, but seeing folks like Barr or Jared saying these things on camera removes the "fake news" aspect. "It's not fake, I saw Jared say that on camera!"
  • I didn't tune in, but it looks like Fox also covered the hearing this time. Perhaps more than one Maga fool will start to realize they have been conned. (Not holding breath.)
As stated earlier, I missed a significant portion so I'm sure there are other "bullet points."

The 3rd hearing starts Wednesday 6/15 at 10:00 am EST.
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

I think you covered it all. The purpose of the presentation was to show through the testimony of Republicans, not Democrats, that Trump must have known his claims were false but pushed them anyway. The question is important because if there's a good possibility that he believed the "evidence" shown him, his intent could be judged as not corrupt. Now that possibility has been publicly stretched to incredulity. And you're right, following the money gives further confirmation that he knew the truth, but figured that if he couldn't win back his office he could run a scam netting millions that would give him huge power within the party.
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearing # 3

Wow, another powerful hearing. Here are some highlights.
  • Judge Luttig's written statement to the committee is very powerful, see attachment. His speaking mode is excruciatingly precise.
  • Many expositors of the "Big Lie" and the plan to overturn the electoral college vote did not actually believe what they were advocating. John Eastman is one prominent example. In conversations with Pence's legal assistant Greg Jacob, Eastman admitted that his legal theories had no support in the constitution or precedent, yet he proclaimed them in a speech moments prior to the Jan 6 attack. Eastman admitted if his plan was followed it would lose 9 - 0 in a SCOTUS ruling. He also did not want either VP Al Gore or Kamala Harris to have the power to overturn an election, but nevertheless wanted Pence to do it on 1/6/21.
  • Eastman pled the 5th over 100 times in testimony to the Jan 6 committee and requested a pardon from the President.
  • In a closing statement Judge Luttig said Trump supporters are a clear and present danger to US democracy as they openly plan to repeat Jan 6 actions if the GOP loses the Presidential election in 2024.
  • I feel sorry for the woman who sat behind Greg Jacob's left shoulder during today's hearing. She has the worst case of R.B.F. I have ever seen. She looked like this during the entire 2+ hour presentation.
Attachments
Judge Luttig statement Jan 6 house committee.pdf
(65.38 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

If any Trump loyalists are watching ( doubtful?), they'll see stalwart, Bible-quoting Republican conservatives giving Trump no quarter. That won't matter much, though. because when the main motivation is hatred of the other side, evidence that your leader is guilty as hell is irrelevant. David French explains that as what happens when a country is negatively polarized.

Mike Pence is getting quite an uplift in these hearings. Does that make him more viable as the Republican standard-bearer in 2024? I would guess not, going on the theory that Trumpism is here to stay for a long while, even if Trump himself is put out to pasture.
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

DWill wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:16 am
Mike Pence is getting quite an uplift in these hearings. Does that make him more viable as the Republican standard-bearer in 2024?
Pence is getting a lot of positive vibes simply for not being a traitor. How low the bar has fallen.

I've been thinking Liz Cheney would be a great Republican candidate—if only the GOP weren't so mired in Trumpism at the moment. How ironic that a principled woman who stands for true conservative values has been censured by her own party. Because as we all know, the Jan. 6 attack was "legitimate political discourse." And Cheney may very well lose her House seat to a Trump-picked candidate. But maybe the people of Wyoming will come to their senses in time.
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

I agree Pence, Cheney, and Kinzinger are "Profiles in Courage" in standing up for the Constitution under excruciating pressure at a most critical time. Although I don't trust them one bit beyond that, in this divided nation we must work with opponents on common ground as much as possible. Although Cheney would probably be a horrendous President, she is far more preferable to any Trumpist authoritarian.
I Would Have Laid My Body Across the Road Before I Would Have Let a Vice President Overturn the Election.
- Former Judge Michael J. Luttig
Testimony to Jan 6 committee 6/16/21
Next two Jan 6 Committee hearings:
Tuesday 6/21 1:00 EST
Thursday 6/23 1:00 EST
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

LanDroid wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:29 pmAlthough Cheney would probably be a horrendous President, she is far more preferable to any Trumpist authoritarian.
Just out of curiosity, why do you think Cheney would be a horrendous president? I don’t know a lot about her besides the work she’s doing on the Jan. 6 committee.
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

Liz Cheney is a neo con. Her Presidency would mean a return of the likes of G.W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, and so on. Remember the "Unitary Executive" theory of a strong Presidency that overwhelms other branches. "We make history while you can only observe." Remember weaponizing intelligence services - first trashing them for not acknowledging the obvious presence of WMD in Iraq, forcing them to provide the scantiest of evidence of WMD to justify the invasion, then trashing them again for major intel failures when none was found. VP Dick Cheney even set up his own intel collection service to manage that information. Her Presidency would also mean a return to aggressive imperialist foreign policy featuring preemptive long term wars against dictators. She will accelerate the domestic culture wars. Etc. etc.

But again, the courageous Liz Cheney is preferable to any Trump authoritarian. If Trumpists get back into power we may never have another free election or a transfer of power outside of their control.
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

Mike Pence did not do what any sane, even semi-reasonable person would have known could not be done, so on that score I agree with geo that the bar has lowered. But I appreciate his coolness and resolve on Jan. 6. He didn't let himself be whisked away by the Secret Service, instead staying in the basement trying to do the job his President should have been doing. Most important was his determination to finish his Constitutional duty that day, rather than allowing a delay. Who knows what mischief would have ensued in that event.

What do we make of Pence's absence from the hearings? According to Politico, his team hasn't shown interest in his participation, but also Thompson never issued him a formal invitation. No doubt the shrewd Pence has his political future in mind and so doesn't want to inflame unnecessarily the MAGA crowd. He can benefit from moderate Republicans hearing nice things about him, without having to broadcast his own heroism. Ultimately, he fails in his duty, in my opinion, because he has said nothing about the larger issue at stake, which Michael Luttig captured so forcefully.

I think the Committee is also fine with Pence's absence. He might downplay the seriousness of the day and the level of his conflict with Trump.
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings # 4

I was about to summarize the Jan 6 committee hearings of 6/21, but decided against that. If you are not somehow / someway watching all of these hearings, you are missing out on a critical part of American history. This is difficult to compare to the Watergate hearings as they will not result in the resignation of a President and may not result in any accountability at all for former President Trump, but nevertheless it deserves your undivided attention for the following reasons just in the last session.
  • The riveting testimony from Arizona House of Representatives Speaker Rusty Bowers, Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, and Deputy COO at Secretary of State Gabe Sterling. All were GOP stalwarts.
  • There were horrific attacks on the above people extending down all the way to precinct level election workers across the nation like Wandrea "Shaye" Moss and her mother Ruby Freeman of Fulton County, GA. These courageous individuals stand in contrast to the astonishing cowardice of degenerate celebrities like Rudy Giuliani, Lin Wood, John Eastman, Sidney Powell, and many others.
  • Awesome closing argument from Rep. Adam Schiff.
  • Great closing argument from Liz Cheney.
  • Watch the 4th hearing.
New developments.
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

Perhaps we need a poll on whether Trump will be charged. I think the manner in which the facts have been brought out will make it difficult for Garland not to act. I would vote he will be charged, and he is richly deserving.

If he is charged, there will be civil unrest, maybe even civil war. But holding off would be worse for the country.
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

Damned if we indict and prosecute; damned if we do not indict and prosecute...

Correction: Today's hearing starts at 2:45 pm EST.
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearing # 5

Another amazing hearing focusing on White House efforts to control the Department of Justice. I won't summarize all of it, here's an article that hits the highlights.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/january-6- ... takeaways/

One powerful moment was in describing the final decision whether or not to replace AG Rosen with a lower level employee Jeffrey Clark who basically would do whatever Trump wanted. There was a meeting in the Oval Office to make this decision. Trump was told that if he put Clarke in charge of the DOJ, so many people would resign that "Clark would be head of a graveyard." That's what finally clicked and Trump decided not to make that change. That's how close we came... WOW...
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Re: House January 6 Committee hearings

All of these Trump admin. officials were MIA in the second impeachment hearings. I admire their resolve, but they under reacted when it came to actually removing our great threat.
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