BookTalk.org
https://www.booktalk.org/

Presidential Debates - 2020
https://www.booktalk.org/presidential-debates-2020-t31651.html
Page 1 of 2

Author:  Cattleman [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Presidential Debates - 2020

Tomorrow night is scheduled the first presidential "debate" of this year's general election campaign. I deliberately put the term debate in quotation marks. I remember watching the first of these so-called debates in 1960 (yes, I am that old). The debate was moderated by Howard K. Smith, and featured correspondents from the major television and radio networks. It was also the first televised debate. (How times have changed). It is widely believed that these debates provided the impetus to Kennedy's election. You can pick up videos of these debates on many websites.

I personally doubt this year's debate will change many minds. I intend to watch Tuesday night's exchange (I hesitate to call it a debate), and suggest you do likewise. I welcome comments, will be interested to see if anyone changes their choice of candidate based on their interpretation of the result.

Author:  ant [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

Let's be honest here, okay?

You do realize the democrats realize Biden won't last 4 years.. He likely wont last more than a year and that the vote is really going to Kamala.

No way in hell.. he's been in politics for over 180 years.. that's too long.




Author:  DWill [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

ant wrote:
Let's be honest here, okay?

You do realize the democrats realize Biden won't last 4 years.. He likely wont last more than a year and that the vote is really going to Kamala.

No way in hell.. he's been in politics for over 180 years.. that's too long.




So disagreeing with your view is being dishonest--hmmm.

Author:  DWill [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

Cattleman wrote:
Tomorrow night is scheduled the first presidential "debate" of this year's general election campaign. I deliberately put the term debate in quotation marks. I remember watching the first of these so-called debates in 1960 (yes, I am that old). The debate was moderated by Howard K. Smith, and featured correspondents from the major television and radio networks. It was also the first televised debate. (How times have changed). It is widely believed that these debates provided the impetus to Kennedy's election. You can pick up videos of these debates on many websites.

I personally doubt this year's debate will change many minds. I intend to watch Tuesday night's exchange (I hesitate to call it a debate), and suggest you do likewise. I welcome comments, will be interested to see if anyone changes their choice of candidate based on their interpretation of the result.

I might not be quite as old as you, Cattleman, but I dimly recall the Kennedy-Nixon debate being talked about. Having seen a few clips of it, my impression was that it was indeed a debate, at least as close to one as these political competitions get. I think if we expect some kind of formal, academic exercise from these performances (which they surely are), we'll be disappointed. What I recall as the big takeaway from at least the first debate between JFK and Nixon was that TV viewers said Kennedy had won, while those listening on radio picked Nixon. RMN had serious 5 o'clock shadow issues and a sweaty upper lip. What a basis on which to chose a president, huh?

I agree that there are probably few undecided voters. This will be a ritual test, mainly. Biden has to appear sharp and not get tangled verbally, but he doesn't need to be brilliant. If he's seen as the calmer, rational one, he wins. I can't believe Trump really intends to throw Hunter Biden at Biden, as I've read--but wait, yes I can believe it.

Author:  DWill [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

No, even the NYT revelations on Trump's taxes won't cause many Trump supporters to flip. The matter is sure to come up tomorrow night, of course. Me, I'm going to see what other information comes out before deciding how big a problem this is for Trump. Potentially, it's huge.

Author:  ant [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

DWill wrote:
No, even the NYT revelations on Trump's taxes won't cause many Trump supporters to flip. The matter is sure to come up tomorrow night, of course. Me, I'm going to see what other information comes out before deciding how big a problem this is for Trump. Potentially, it's huge.



DWILL calls it " revelation"

When in actuality this revelation is likely a criminal act as 26 US Code states.


Party over principles!

But I think more to the point, if Trump was able to expose tax loopholes for his benefit all these years he likely isn't doing anything the " game" doesnt have in its rules ( hate the game not the player) or any other rich white man has been doing for decades now.
GOOD GRIEF.. what a " revelation " : :?

Author:  ant [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

I agree with some of the more brilliant political pundit strategists who say the best strategy Trump can use to win these debates is to just let Biden talk the entire 90 minutes.

He will eventually say something unearthly stupid or stick his foot in his mouth.

Author:  Interbane [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

ant wrote:
I agree with some of the more brilliant political pundit strategists who say the best strategy Trump can use to win these debates is to just let Biden talk the entire 90 minutes.

He will eventually say something unearthly stupid or stick his foot in his mouth.


The same is doubly true of Trump. Or it would be, if his base didn't forgive him for anything and everything. Attacks against him won't work either. Any piece of information that casts him in a bad light, even if true, will be denied. He'll smile knowingly, shake his head, and claim it's fake news. And all his supporters believe it.

Quote:
But I think more to the point, if Trump was able to expose tax loopholes for his benefit all these years he likely isn't doing anything the " game" doesnt have in its rules


And yet he enters office and cuts taxes, rather than push to fix the loopholes. His methods of avoidance are borderline criminal, if not outright criminal. Which makes sense, as he's currently under investigation for some of what he's done.

The worst of it is the picture it paints. He's a fraudster and a poor businessman. He's lost billions and has hundreds of millions in debt coming due in the next few years.

Author:  DWill [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

ant wrote:
DWill wrote:
No, even the NYT revelations on Trump's taxes won't cause many Trump supporters to flip. The matter is sure to come up tomorrow night, of course. Me, I'm going to see what other information comes out before deciding how big a problem this is for Trump. Potentially, it's huge.


DWILL calls it " revelation"

When in actuality this revelation is likely a criminal act as 26 US Code states.

What makes it a revelation, of course, is that Trump lied several times about intending to release his tax history. So this is big news. Nor is it "likely" that the Times itself is guilty of breaking a law, in publishing information it obtained from sources.
Quote:
Party over principles!

Isn't yours the method used by Trump, and now by Republicans--whatever might be thrown against us, throw it back harder, even if the charge makes little sense. That Republicans are the prime abandoners of principle can't really be doubted, can it?
Quote:
But I think more to the point, if Trump was able to expose tax loopholes for his benefit all these years he likely isn't doing anything the " game" doesnt have in its rules ( hate the game not the player) or any other rich white man has been doing for decades now.
GOOD GRIEF.. what a " revelation " : :?

I saw a Trump supporter interviewed who said something like, "I think it's great, what he did. I always bend over backwards trying to pay as little tax as I legally can." So that second-to-last word is going to be what tells the story for Trump. He may have done criminal things, things that could send him to jail. That's to be determined.

If his taxes are a big nothingburger, why did he not release them after promising to? We know the being-under-audit excuse is bogus. He didn't keep his promise because, at the very least, he knew such information would be a big barrier to his election (he didn't pay any taxes at all most of the 15 years before 2016). After winning, he of course couldn't politically or personally stand the reaction that coming clean would create.

Author:  Chris OConnor [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

I hope you guys plan to watch the debate tonight. I'm making popcorn and taking a Xanax to get me through the pain.

Author:  DWill [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

I can't lie--and ant might be glad to hear this-- I'm nervous for Biden. It's gonna be hard for him to find that line between passively shrugging off Trump's provocation and getting into a brawl with him (which Biden says he wants to avoid). Also, Biden can become flummoxed, and that doesn't look good. Even though these shows are of questionable value, as Cattleman said, whichever one shows most respect for the occasion and some dignity, will win in my eyes.

Author:  ant [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

Quote:
Interbane wrote:

The same is doubly true of Trump.


All these silly-minded flirtations with tu quoque will win you no prizes. I do not entirely disagree with you though


Quote:
Interbane wrote:

And yet he enters office and cuts taxes, rather than push to fix the loopholes.


I agree.
But why haven't the democrats push to fix loopholes as well? They recently had 8 straight years to do it.

My hunch is most of them use these very same loopholes, break bread with republicans that do the same, then laugh at us all over drinks.



I am not a "business as usual" man.
Unlike the "anyone but Trump" crowd.

Author:  Cattleman [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

Thanks for the tip on the popcorn, Chris. :wink: Personally, I am looking forward to the Pence/Harris (Harris/Pence) debate, if there is one. Sorry, I haven't kept up on the campaign schedule. :hmm:

Author:  ant [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

DWill wrote:
I can't lie--and ant might be glad to hear this-- I'm nervous for Biden. It's gonna be hard for him to find that line between passively shrugging off Trump's provocation and getting into a brawl with him (which Biden says he wants to avoid). Also, Biden can become flummoxed, and that doesn't look good. Even though these shows are of questionable value, as Cattleman said, whichever one shows most respect for the occasion and some dignity, will win in my eyes.



Whoever is the less phony will score points with me, regardless.


I wont be voting for him, but Trump explicitly admitted to the NYT back in 2016 (I think) that he hasn't paid (significant) taxes in years.
He was essentially saying the game is rigged for people like him.


How much taxes do you think monoliths like Google, Facebook, Amazon, and Twitter pay annually?

Author:  Chris OConnor [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Presidential Debates - 2020

ant wrote:
But why haven't the democrats push to fix loopholes as well? They recently had 8 straight years to do it.

My hunch is most of them use these very same loopholes, break bread with republicans that do the same, then laugh at us all over drinks.


I agree completely.

Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/