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What do conservatives believe?

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geo

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What do conservatives believe?

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I was having a conversation with some random guy on Facebook (of all places). He was arguing that Donald Trump represents conservative ideals. And so I asked him if he could describe what conservatives believe. His response was something along the following:

1) In general, less government.
2) The invisible hand theory of Adam Smith.
3) A president should do three things; protect our rights, protect our borders and help stimulate the economy.

I concurred, more or less, with his thoughts on conservatism. (Though not so sure about Adam Smith's economic theories.)

For the record, I definitely don't think Trump espouses conservative ideals. But if the GOP ever did go back to being conservative, are these the kinds of things they would still champion? Looking for honest and civil discourse. I still consider myself a moderate conservative these days. And I think both parties in America need to be reformed. Maybe we can start a similar thread on what liberals believe.
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Re: What do conservatives believe?

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At a certain level conservatives have abandoned all principles except for support of Trump. For example, does anyone believe Liz Cheney is not a full blooded conservative? Once one of the top Republican leaders in the House, now the GOP is attempting to force her out of congress. This is solely due to her criticism of Trump's lies about the election and her participation on the Jan 6 committee.
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Taylor

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Re: What do conservatives believe?

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I’m really intrigued by the question, So thank you Geo for posing it.

What do conservatives believe? ( an interesting proposal, because the question suggests a good deal of lacking in self awareness). Leftist or progressives such as myself are not asking this question. We do not lack self doubt towards our regards for the preservation or progression of society.

The question asked is a deep one that cannot and will not be answered incidentally because conservatism is never quite clear about itself. For example, do we reference Burkean conservatism, (something DWiLL oftentimes references) or Friedrich Hayek (Robert Tulip often referenced, but recently questioned). Or the recent populist conservatism of Ayn Rand who’s acolytes includes the likes of Ronald Reagan and the libertarian anti-taxers that championed California’s prop 13 from the mid seventies?.

Fox News represents itself as some sort of stalwart representative of conservatism, they squawk box this weird perversion of modern conservatism that only asks the question but offers no answers.
I’ve posed this question before on BookTalk.org, What is the appropriate size of government? . No conservatives are able too provide an appropriate response, Why? It’s simple, truths hurt conservatives. (The answer? The size of government must be adequate to checkmate any individual state or conglomerate that means to usurp the common good).

Adam Smiths the “Wealth of Nations” is quintessential!, it is imperative.
I... as a progressive leftist am still nothing but a Capitalist!!! I’m boggled by the proposition that something other than capitalism even exists.
Every thing of Smiths proposals stands true too this day...BUT... sympathy wanes, empathy exhausts the modern conservative. They’ve drowned under the weight of a nonexistent struggle.

Randomly I ask...Is there an uncontrolled U.S. = Mexico border? Or more appropriate, are we not asking the the vital question?. Why is there illegal immigration through the southern border? ... the answer is.... it’s ton expensive to legally emigrate.
Governments do not protect our “rights” the constitution of the United States guarantees our rights...it’s written.

Economic growth/stimulation is not the purview of the chief executive. it was never an intended, implied, or obligation for the office of President, though that is some modern era conservative fantasy.

What do conservatives believe? Belief is such a strange word. Beliefs imply faith in a thing for which there is no proof.

There is no questioning reality. Modern conservatism fails just as assuredly as socialism, communism, totalitarianism or any other economic “ism” one may concoct with one exception... progressive economic capitalism in the mode of early to mid 20th century regulation an control of not just federal individual state power, but the limitation of private equity as well.

Modern conservatism clings too a late 20th century philosophy of implied statism because there were at the time centrally controlled/closed societies that were in fact oppressive. If we are looking at the United States as example... well it does become quite complex.

The so called “founders” could not have imagined intersectionality and the morphing of flintlock riffles to modern assault weapons. Conservatives fail to differentiate the two.

Edit: I’ve just read what I’ve posted, I’ll do better to elaborate some points.
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geo

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Re: What do conservatives believe?

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LanDroid wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:18 pm At a certain level conservatives have abandoned all principles except for support of Trump.
Yes, the current GOP seems bereft of ideas and principles. They seem to only want to hold on to power and to justify this power-mongering with the belief that liberals are destroying our country. So win at all costs . . .

Hopefully even liberals can have a begrudging respect for Liz Cheney, one of very few Republicans still standing on principles and defending the U.S. Constitution. For that, the RNC voted to censure her.

Cheney recently wrote an op-ed piece in the WSJ about the work of the Jan. 6 committee. She does not mince words.

https://cheney.house.gov/2022/02/10/wsj ... timidated/
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geo

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Re: What do conservatives believe?

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Taylor wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 12:49 am
I’ve posed this question before on BookTalk.org, What is the appropriate size of government? . No conservatives are able too provide an appropriate response, Why? It’s simple, truths hurt conservatives. (The answer? The size of government must be adequate to checkmate any individual state or conglomerate that means to usurp the common good).

Adam Smiths the “Wealth of Nations” is quintessential!, it is imperative.
I... as a progressive leftist am still nothing but a Capitalist!!! I’m boggled by the proposition that something other than capitalism even exists.
Every thing of Smiths proposals stands true too this day...BUT... sympathy wanes, empathy exhausts the modern conservative. They’ve drowned under the weight of a nonexistent struggle.
Just responding to one of your points, Taylor. I'll have to brush up on my Adam Smith, but I do think we should strive to keep our government as small as feasible. Just how feasibly small requires something of a reality check. Besides your point, that government needs to be able to checkmate any individual state or conglomerate that means to usurp the common good, the government must also be large enough to govern in an increasingly complex world. Big cities are very populated and have very different sorts of problems than our rural areas, so require a larger government. Likewise, our federal government has to command a large military and deal with unrest in other parts of the world. This requires a very complex and large government.

Conservatives traditionally do believe in having a strong military and that America should be a leader in the world. So maybe the notion of small government is not very realistic any more. The U.S. population has increased from about 150 million people in 1950 to nearly 400 million in 2022. That's a lot of people and requires a larger government, in my opinion.

I'll end this with a question. At what point does the size of a nation-state get too big? Maybe we're already there.

Hoping DWill and Harry can step in and contribute to this discussion. :-D
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DWill

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Re: What do conservatives believe?

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Hello geo, Taylor, and Landroid. I hear it's going to be nice today, up here in what we call the Page Valley of Virginia. That's something both liberals and conservatives can agree on! (or at least it used to be that way). Conservative and liberal are terms serving the purpose of staking out the two ends of the spectrum; they don't necessarily have much inherent meaning in my view. Confusion comes in when we lament the passing of the liberal world order, a concept conservatives used to value as much as liberals. When you take a look at liberalism in Britain, it looks a lot like our Buckleyean U.S. conservatism!

David Brooks said RIP to his conservatism in last month's Altantic, because "conservatives" have become largely Trump idolators. Genuine conservatives like George Will, Max Boot, and Brooks himself were appalled by Trump (though I believe Brooks has also simply come to favor some liberal ideas. Most Fridays on the PBS Newshour you can detect little difference between him and Capehart.)

To add to the elements of "classic" conservatism that geo mentioned, I'd put the inability of government to mold human nature to its liking, to make people better or more advanced in thinking. Efforts to do that such as Communism have failed and are immoral to conservatives because they mess with fundamental structures such as family and community (and sure, I agree). But then conservatives have to face the less drastic efforts of government that have improved people and therefore society: abolishing slavery, passing civil rights laws including non-discrimination against gay people and the disabled, anti-trust, and others. Social justice is a conservative sticking point due to conservatives' tendency to think that "whatever is, is right." It's also very, very hard to continue to maintain that capitalist free enterprise will regulate itself, to the ultimate benefit of all.

We can't forget the animus against taxation that has a strong hold on conservatives. It might largely come down to money, as it often does. Socialism is bad because it subtracts so much from paychecks.

In Virginia currently, those who would probably identify as conservative favor laws to prevent schoolteachers from telling students about the racism in our history and especially in present society. Liberals or progressives have their excesses, too--I'm not denying that. But there is a lopsided effect in the country, with extremism having power almost solely on the "conservative" right.
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Re: What do conservatives believe?

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DWill wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:12 am . . . In Virginia currently, those who would probably identify as conservative favor laws to prevent schoolteachers from telling students about the racism in our history and especially in present society. Liberals or progressives have their excesses, too--I'm not denying that. But there is a lopsided effect in the country, with extremism having power almost solely on the "conservative" right.
Thanks, DWill. I don't think William Buckley would recognize the Republican party today. Which is why I ask what do conservatives believe today, not what Republicans believe. I'll have to look up that David Brooks article to see if he makes that distinction. Is Brooks giving up on his conservatism or is he giving up on the GOP, today's Populist Party?

Republicans today seem to only interested in staying power and to oppose whatever Democrats stand for. Which is why Republicans embrace voter suppression and censorship to fight critical race theory.

Part of the problem, as you say, is that Democrats have become defined by extremists on the left. I'm not saying it is the same as what's happening on the right, but it adds a fear-mongering dimension akin to the red scare of the 1950s. And that gives FoxNews and the meme-spreaders on social media—see the thread Chris O'Connor started—all the ammunition they need to demonize the left and, by proxy, the Democrats. If the Democrats are the enemy, then anything goes. Too many people are willing to throw away our democratic traditions and to embrace would-be Putin-esque authoritarians like Trump, all in response to the perceived threat by our enemy within.

We need moderates—the middle—to take back control of the dialogue. We need two viable political parties in America, a return to "classic" conservatism and "classic" progressivism, whatever those mean today. Our political parties should embrace ideas instead of propaganda.
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geo

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Re: What do conservatives believe?

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Here's that article by Brooks that DWill mentioned.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... on/620853/
-Geo
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