I don't recall what I said, but apologize if I came on too strong.ant wrote:So when Geo calls my expressions about some of what's been happening in our nation "bullshit" that's not abusive?.
So the purpose was to dominate the public square with racist attitudes that gave the finger to federal efforts to promote equality of opportunity.geo wrote:Most of our Confederate monuments are essentially propaganda anyway. They were erected in the 1910s-1950s during a resurgence of race riots and civil unrest in our country and while some states were expanding Jim Crow laws to disenfranchise black Americans.
geo wrote:I don't recall what I said, but apologize if I came on too strong.ant wrote:So when Geo calls my expressions about some of what's been happening in our nation "bullshit" that's not abusive?.
What a hackCongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
Might be that you make good point, but I wish you'd included the clip or transcript of what he said.ant wrote:Chris Cuomo of left wing CNN fame graduated from Yale, has a JD from Fordham U.
He demanded someone show him where it says protests must be peaceful.
I'm not a graduate of Yale, but I too can tell him it says it in The First Amendment
What a hackCongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
All I can say is, well, two things. On the general level, it's possible that I feel freer in calling you out than I do with geo. Maybe that's due to some tribalism, and it isn't right of me. Regarding specifics, if you call something I say 'bullshit,' I won't like it, but I'm not likely to take it very personally. If you make a global judgment by calling me dumb and stupid, that feels a lot different.ant wrote:DWill wrote:Ant, you're too angry about all of this to engage constructively right now. You're becoming abusive.
So when Geo calls my expressions about some of what's been happening in our nation "bullshit" that's not abusive?
That's not an angry tone?
That wasn't too long ago.. Got look it up.
Why didn't you call that abuse?
Go ahead and call for me to be banned. I don't care.
Or now that LanDroid is upset and I hurt his feelings with my political views he can censor me himself. He's a moderator.
To tell you the truth it won't surprise me in the least.
Citizens, or perhaps private police, of The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone were caught on video physically removing a man preaching tenants of Christianity, putting him in a choke hold, taking him to the ground, and then dragging him along the ground.
No, a historical analogy is probably never exact, but the point here is about dead, previous leaders, anyway, not current ones. I mean that the two situations have enough similarity that we might pause to analyze our reaction if we cheer on the East Europeans in tearing down statues of their past oppressors, while condemning similar acts here. Shouldn't there be more consistency--at the least, recognizing the validity of the resentment against Confederate heroes, even if disapproving the destruction of the images?ant wrote:Are you comparing the current state of America as being the same as The Soviet Union under Stalin?DWill wrote:]As for tearing down--destroying--the statues, if we decry such vandalism, we might think of how we react to pictures of newly liberated people in the former Soviet Union toppling images of Stalin. How many of us point disapproving fingers at that?
The Confederate statues represent the South's successful overturning of reforms during Reconstruction, the re-establishment of white supremacy by law and custom in the South.That we still nationally honor slavery and did not ever abolish it?
I thought the topic was statues.That we should cheer the violence being committed against innocents because we are living in a communist regime?
Again, that is not about statues, so I wasn't pointing to any of that in the comment you quoted. But on the topic of justice, our modern history has not been a steady march of progress, as we can see in the massive growth of incarceration, which has affected African Americans disproportionately.That we really did not have courts of law, or any lawful justice prior to Floyd?
That we do not have prisons/jails with people who have gone through a judicial processes that although not full proof, is better than anything we have seen in modern history to date, but instead have gulags filled with innocents?
This is not the same "picture"
What an odd thing to say.
Have you paid enough attention to the leaders of the demonstrations who plead for those bent on violence to stay away? Or to the fact that, in aggregate, the protests have been peaceful?Here is what Martin Luther King Jr said about violence as a path to justiceAnyone who does not condemn this ongoing violence is complicit.Violence as a way of achieving racial justice is both impractical and immoral. I am not unmindful of the fact that violence often brings about momentary results. Nations have frequently won their independence in battle. But in spite of temporary victories, violence never brings permanent peace. It solves no social problem: it merely creates new and more complicated ones. Violence is impractical because it is a descending spiral ending in destruction for all. It is immoral because it seeks to humiliate the opponent rather than win his understanding: it seeks to annihilate rather than convert. Violence is immoral because it thrives on hatred rather than love. It destroys community and makes brotherhood impossible. It leaves society in monologue rather than dialogue. Violence ends up defeating itself. It creates bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers.
Grūtas Park (unofficially known as Stalin's World) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C5%ABtas_Park in Lithuania has a collection of Soviet era statues, brought together to help people reflect on why they were originally put in place as symbols of imperial oppression. A similar park in Moscow is known as the Fallen Monument Park - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Monument_Parkgeo wrote:There are good arguments on both sides—for taking down the statues because they are symbols of oppression, and for leaving them in place as objects d’history of race relations in our nation.