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Day one of the impeachment proceeding leaves me inclined to agree with conservative columnist Marc A. Thiessen that gross incompetence is the best takeaway on Ukrainegate, rather than a Nixonian abuse of power. This means that impeachment might well not be justified, though Trump's actions were certainly wrong. But doing wrong things is not necessarily impeachable, nor is incompetence. Trump has always been, from my point of view, unfit for the office, but that is something a majority of voters (or rather, electors) need to decide.

But it's early in the process, and new evidence and a full laying out of the facts might cause me to change my mind. The concerns that have been brought up are certainly worthy of this kind of public investigation, however. If the conclusion is "no impeachment," that does not mean that the process was wasted effort, any more than the Mueller investigation was wasted effort.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

I see that Nancy Pelosi today said that Trump's negotiations with Ukraine were essentially an attempt at "bribery", which is an impeachable offense. Certainly many of the witnesses felt Trump's actions to be improper and possibly against the law. But otherwise, I tend to agree with Thiessen's argument that Trump simply blunders into improper situations out of sheer ignorance and stupidity. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for not impeachment.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who seem bent on impeachment no matter what. I think this is a mistake. Removing Trump from office would only feed into a toxic narrative that this is a coup. It would be much better to vote Trump out of office in the 2020 election.

Wendell Berry had some unsolicited advice for the Kerry campaign in 2004 that is surprisingly relevant today. He wrote:

Facing this year's presidential election, our people are bitterly divided. This division is perhaps as great a threat to our future as is the possibility of a second term for Mr. Bush. And so the paramount question for Senator Kerry's campaign is how to oppose Mr. Bush effectively without so exacerbating the country's political differences as to reduce the possibility of effective government should Senator Kerry win the election.

To remove Trump from office would, I believe, cause such a severe backlash that we might see Pence or someone like Ted Cruz be elected in 2020. So really our best hope is that the House will vote to impeach but the Senate will decline to remove him from office, just as it played out for Bill Clinton. Removing Trump from office is not what's best for our country.

I'm not a Trump fan (except that he drives Democrats crazy) and I think the Republican party is a joke. But the way I look at it, as far as misconduct from modern Presidents, this is ludicrously trivial. Where is the outrage for the unconstitutional wars and unconstitutional executive orders? The previous crackdown on whistleblowers and journalists? Detaining and kill lists for US citizens without trial?

The media is framing it as "digging dirt on a political rival." You could also frame it as "finding out information about corruption." Why only Biden? Well, Trump doesn't like him, so what? If you don't look into all corruption, it's illegitimate? There's a reason why Schiff embarrassed himself with his "parody" of the phone call. Because if you just heard this without the media hype, you wouldn't even notice anything had happened.

White people are funny.

Claiming gross incompetence as evidence of an inability to form a quid pro quo would be an ideal defense for PSfB and I think PSfB should own it.

Thiessen is hardly objective in this, he’s a libertarian fox in GOP clothing, PSfB didn’t need merely more than an official statement of intent to investigate Biden and Burisma by Zelensky in order to use it as a political wedge issue in the 2020 campaign. It’s actually brilliant and therefore shows the intent and need for the implied threat. The fact that trump was busted shouldn’t let him off the hook. I think that voting for impeachment is a good thing, let the Senate carry through with what ever charade they can produce.

The Mueller report did not exonerate Trump from collaboration with the Russians, there simply was insufficient evidence that he did. PSfB’s incompetence seems to be the latest form of obstruction. Like I said PSfB should own his incompetence, then see if those appalachian types pack those arenas.

PSfB is hardly the guy to get to the bottom of global corruption, no, the bigger crime is PSfB’s implied threat, Mulvaney said “get over it” “it happens all the time” .

Those are perceptive comments. I have to admit a possible weakness, in that I don't always know what to think. I find it extremely hard to find perspective that could claim to be objective. Politics is a short term game in which the urge is to press for any immediate advantage we see, or fend off a supposed immediate consequence. But what about the long view that relies more on thought and principle? Am I being naive?

Taylor, I've disagreed with Thiessen in the past, seeing him as a Trump apologist at times. But I want to avoid pre-judging him based on his political stripe. If that attitude makes me a little prone to being taken in by his argument, I guess I don't see that as necessarily a bad thing.

If anybody sees short articles they think have something to contribute on this topic (or related), please send them .

DB Roy wrote:White people are funny.

I don't understand your comment.

Even if the error was made by incompetence, what sort of precedent would it set to allow him to get away with an otherwise impeachable offense? Is it really a defense to say that he's so stupid he doesn't realize what he's done is wrong? Wouldn't that pass into the territory of gross incompetence?

DWill wrote:

DB Roy wrote:White people are funny.

I don't understand your comment.

And hence my comment.