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Why aren't Canadians having children and what can we do about it? 
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Post Why aren't Canadians having children and what can we do about it?
I think Canada's low and falling fertility rate is a crisis for the sustainability of our society and standard of living. I come from Nova Scotia where the lack of young people is causing the province to slowly fall apart and this is a premonition for the rest of the country. Immigration is only a temporary salve for this problem because -- contrary to popular belief -- immigrants have only slightly more children than the native born. In a larger sense, having children is an optimistic act and an indication of how people's lives are going. Its a big step that most people want to take and if they can't it says something is wrong with our society.Tweakbox https://www.happywheels.vip/ https://vlc.onl/


In 2017, Canada's fertility rate dropped to near the lowest level on record: 1.54. That means the average woman will have 1.54 children in her life. This is below a level of 1.69 before the 2008 recession and well below the level required to keep the population stable (2.1). In 1971 Canadians were just above replacement (2.13) and in 1950 they were well above (3.44).

Part of the reason for falling fertility is increasing career opportunities for women, the birth control pill, declining religiosity, and general changes in culture. However that doesn't explain everything. If you look across developed countries today, there is considerable variation.



Last edited by rickkanjurmarg on Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:50 am
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Post Re: Why aren't Canadians having children and what can we do about it?
Don't look to Japan for advice, they have the same problem. Maybe Canadians and Japanese need to get together to solve the problem in both countries.

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Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:48 pm
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Post Re: Why aren't Canadians having children and what can we do about it?
Declining birthrates are a global phenomenon among rich countries.

It used to be that support for motherhood was a cliche, but no more. It is only a slight exaggeration to say that these days many people regard mothers with contempt, as stupid and greedy fools whose lifestyle choice to be a parent is adding to the primary cause of global warming, human beings.

A constant drum beat in liberal media is the need to close the alleged income gap between men and women. Feminists pretend this gap is due to discrimination when in fact it is almost entirely due to the fact that women have lower career aspirations than men due to their role as primary carers for their children. Closing the gender pay gap means both having less children and contracting out more childcare to paid employees.

My personal view is that our planet can support a high human population together with sustainable biodiversity, but it requires a major economic and social paradigm shift to create such a world. It worries me that precisely the people who are most capable of raising well adjusted and productive children are the ones who are sucked in by the lie that rising population is the main cause of global warming and therefore that having children is morally wrong.

This natality crisis illustrates why serious conversation about global warming is essential, looking at real solutions such as solar radiation management and carbon removal, rather than the fake and selfish solution of being deliberately barren so people can spend their money on themselves. The childless are often oblivious to the fact that not having your own children is likely to make things harder for you when you are old.


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Post Re: Why aren't Canadians having children and what can we do about it?
Robert Tulip wrote:
Declining birthrates are a global phenomenon among rich countries.
Among most countries, really. Only African, Middle Eastern and some South Asian countries still have birth rates above replacement by any substantial amount.

Robert Tulip wrote:
It used to be that support for motherhood was a cliche, but no more. It is only a slight exaggeration to say that these days many people regard mothers with contempt, as stupid and greedy fools whose lifestyle choice to be a parent is adding to the primary cause of global warming, human beings.
It used to be that a lot of women had children because it was expected of them. They thought it was their destiny. Most of the women who still think that way rely for income on men whose education is not adequate for a modern economy, and who therefore have children out of wedlock or put off marriage for a decade or more. Most of the men they hang out with are full of resentment and false pride, and have no more clue how to raise children effectively than how to make a generous income.

Robert Tulip wrote:
A constant drum beat in liberal media is the need to close the alleged income gap between men and women. Feminists pretend this gap is due to discrimination when in fact it is almost entirely due to the fact that women have lower career aspirations than men due to their role as primary carers for their children. Closing the gender pay gap means both having less children and contracting out more childcare to paid employees.
Or it means men stepping up to do their share of the work around the house. The gender division of labor is responsible for choices that account for about 2/3 of the pay gap, (1/3 due to choosing lower education or fields of education that are less likely to pay off in earning, or to depressed wages as more women add to the supply, and 1/3 due to taking time off a career to raise children.) In the logic of a market economy, the ideal employee is a gay man because he is very unlikely to take time off to raise children or to be part of any community at all, and therefore is likely to find whatever fulfillment there is in his life through work. If I could make a modest suggestion, a social norm against workaholism would go a long way toward remedying these problems.

Robert Tulip wrote:
It worries me that precisely the people who are most capable of raising well adjusted and productive children are the ones who are sucked in by the lie that rising population is the main cause of global warming and therefore that having children is morally wrong.
I am not worried. We can afford declining population for a long time to come. But a lot of people thereby miss the joy of raising children, and the more able and well-adjusted they are, the more they are missing if they don't raise children. I once laughed to a younger group that I could not figure out what people without children did for fun, and was informed that clubbing and houses of ill repute are what they do for fun. Umm, I rest my case.

Robert Tulip wrote:
This natality crisis illustrates why serious conversation about global warming is essential, looking at real solutions such as solar radiation management and carbon removal, rather than the fake and selfish solution of being deliberately barren so people can spend their money on themselves. The childless are often oblivious to the fact that not having your own children is likely to make things harder for you when you are old.
Crisis? What crisis?



Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:53 pm
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Post Re: Why aren't Canadians having children and what can we do about it?
Mr. Tulip wrote:
A constant drum beat in liberal media is the need to close the alleged income gap between men and women. Feminists pretend this gap is due to discrimination when in fact it is almost entirely due to the fact that women have lower career aspirations than men due to their role as primary carers for their children. Closing the gender pay gap means both having less children and contracting out more childcare to paid employees.

Those factors do not explain why women are paid significantly less than male colleagues doing the same work with similar experience and education. I don't think anything can explain female managers being paid about the same or significantly less than new hires they are training.
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It's been 30 years since Emily Lawrence found out she was making a lot less than her male colleague, but she's still shocked by her boss's reasoning. She was working as a budget analyst for a congressional committee in Washington, DC at her first real job out of college in 1988. She was making $19,000 a year.

"It was the time in my life I was making the least amount of money, but having the most fun," she recalled. But when the committee staff's salaries was made public, Lawrence saw she was earning less than half the amount one of her male colleagues was making. While he had a bit more experience, Lawrence's boss was often asking her to redo the male colleague's work.

...In 2011, Olivia Jaras started working at a financial institution. She was a contractor, and one of her responsibilities was running payroll for international employees. The hours were long and the work was intense, but it was a great opportunity. Eventually, they brought in an intern to help her with projects. He was an undergrad making $2,500 a month. Jaras was making $2,800 a month. At the time, she had her MBA and was working on getting her masters in Latin American economic development. (Recap: Female MBA making only $300. more than the undergraduate male assistant intern.)

...Melinda Garcia was doing well at her first job at a digital marketing agency in Boston. She had been promoted twice and her salary increased more than 30% from $28,000 to $37,500 in almost two years. When she got promoted to account manager, she accepted without negotiating. A few months later, the company hired two men for the same position. While they were all waiting for training one day, one of the new hires casually complained about how little the position paid. He was making $45,000. Garcia was in shock. She had more experience and had been at the company longer.

"He didn't have any experience whatsoever, it was his first corporate job and he was offered almost $10,000 more than me," she said. "I was so upset and felt taken advantage of."

What happened when these women found out what their male colleagues made
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/02/success/ ... index.html



Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:14 am
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Post Re: Why aren't Canadians having children and what can we do about it?
LanDroid wrote:
women are paid significantly less

Sure, I am not saying there is no sexist discrimination against women, only that a lot of the claims about it are exaggerated, and that closing this gap could have adverse impacts that are not widely acknowledged.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pa ... ted_States says a pay gap of about 5% is due to unquantifiable factors including sexism, whereas the overall pay gap of about 22% is mainly due to other factors.


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Post Re: Why aren't Canadians having children and what can we do about it?
This post and the thread have been illuminating. I was also surprised by the fact that it said'...what can we do about it?' but the post laso turned out to be about learning more about the ground reality in Canada. I also learnt that I am pro-choice and understand even the 'extreme' anti-natalist position thought don't sympathize with their imposition of opinions on others. Or the self righteousness.



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Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:11 am
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Post Re: Why aren't Canadians having children and what can we do about it?
Robert Tulip wrote:
It used to be that support for motherhood was a cliche, but no more. It is only a slight exaggeration to say that these days many people regard mothers with contempt, as stupid and greedy fools whose lifestyle choice to be a parent is adding to the primary cause of global warming, human beings.

I'm suspicious of this rhetorical device--admitting out front that the view is exaggerated, yet in effect claiming it has truth behind it. The way I read the meaning is that women are not seen as "stupid and greedy fools."
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My personal view is that our planet can support a high human population together with sustainable biodiversity, but it requires a major economic and social paradigm shift to create such a world. It worries me that precisely the people who are most capable of raising well adjusted and productive children are the ones who are sucked in by the lie that rising population is the main cause of global warming and therefore that having children is morally wrong.

And we do not now have a high human population? We passed the point long, long ago when our population reached the "high" point. Compare our mass to that of any other mammalian species; we dwarf everything except livestock, which we can see as extensions of ourselves. I see it is probably not true after all that all the ants in the world outweigh humans. That used to be somehow a comforting "fact." Well, all insects as well as bacteria are still more massive, so thank god for that. If we have failed to protect biodiversity, as is undeniable, with 7+ bilion of us on the planet, we can't hope to reverse that by adding to our numbers at a similar rate. Calling for a "major paradigm shift" to achieve that purpose only raises the question of why propose a probably impossible thing in the first place, when there is a more feasible solution.
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This natality crisis illustrates why serious conversation about global warming is essential, looking at real solutions such as solar radiation management and carbon removal, rather than the fake and selfish solution of being deliberately barren so people can spend their money on themselves.

I agree with Harry Marks. There is no natality crisis. Claiming that there is only points up the fact that we are always going to put the interests of our species first. If that is the inevitable psychology of being an evolved species, let's at least be honest about it and lose the sanctimonious talk about living as part of nature. In this case anyway, we greatly exaggerate the social consequences of declining birthrate vs. those coming directly from overpopulation.
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The childless are often oblivious to the fact that not having your own children is likely to make things harder for you when you are old.

You're probably right. This is a good illustration of the dilemma of our interests having to take priority.



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Post Re: Why aren't Canadians having children and what can we do about it?
There are other factors such as health conditions like autism rates climbing, unemployment for men in greater numbers, shrinking economy, etc. All of these factors contribute to the decline in couples having children.












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