Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:13 am





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 209 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 14  Next
Trump is not a joke 
Author Message
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!


Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 794
Thanks: 35
Thanked: 453 times in 346 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Trump is not a joke
While researching for an article I am writing on nativist politics and xenophobia, I was struck by how nativist groups in the past have played the political game exactly the way Trump plays it now. It's both pathetic and remarkable that the fears that rich whites used in order to manipulate middleclass and poor whites are still being used and still work. Each succeeding generation always believes its circumstances are unique to any other and this is due, in part, because that is what they are told by their handlers. "This great nation has never faced the dangers that we face today and how we choose to react will be the legacy we leave to posterity!" We've never had an out-and-out fascist dictatorship in this country but I feel that we recklessly hurtle towards one without seeing, without believing. We hurtle towards it because we believe we are not hurtling towards one. And, quite quietly one great and glorious day, we will wake up and there it will be.

The ugliness that exists within white America--and there is plenty of it--is tapped into by Trump very effectively. To play on white American fears, a scapegoat that is leading the country to ruin is necessary to name. He's just a jerk but he is no longer a joke. He won't go anywhere but that isn't the problem. He WILL leave a legacy behind that others after him will stand on as their soapbox and it will be effective as it has always been effective.

The following article put into words the very thing I was noticing during my research. We ignore it at our peril. Consider yourselves warned:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... unner.html



The following user would like to thank DB Roy for this post:
DWill, Robert Tulip
Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:00 pm
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!


Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 794
Thanks: 35
Thanked: 453 times in 346 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
Trump continues fanning the flames of racist and xenophobic hatred by saying he would implement a program to deport all 11.3 million illegal immigrants which he compared to the Eisenhower Administration's disastrous 1954 program that deported 1 million illegals called "Operation Wetback," the brain-child of the attorney-general Herbert Brownell, Jr. What amounted to a secret police force operating above and outside the law abducted these immigrants indiscriminately so that families were ripped apart and people who were actually legal citizens were rounded up, herded like slaughterhouse cattle, and released deep in the deserts of Mexico where many, with nothing but the clothes on their backs, died of dehydration or exposure. Brownell told his secret police to shoot any "wetbacks" who tried to re-enter the country. Some border stations shaved the heads of its abductees so that they could be more easily spotted if they tried to get back in.

Trump has the gall to dredge this incident back up and saying he is going to repeat it. He insists that it will be done humanely but how he intends to oversee that is left unsaid. How does one humanely abduct people off the street, pack them like sardines into holding facilities and release them in hostile, remote areas too far away for them to attempt to return? He says he will assemble his own secret police for this job and they will get rid of all 11 million illegal immigrants. The cost is estimated to be between $400 million and $600 million although Trump himself has not mentioned the cost.

So how cockamamie is the scheme? None of the other republican candidates will touch it except to reject it. Bill O'Reilly attacked Trump's idea. How crazy are you when Bill O'Reilly is put off by your insane ravings? But as crazy as it is, Trump has dragged it up because he knows his constituency loves it. He'll never pull it off but now that the idea has been floated, it will gain more and more traction until the right candidate comes along and knows exactly how to put it into action.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino./inv ... st-n462331

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... thing-but/



Last edited by DB Roy on Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:56 pm
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
One with Books

Silver Contributor

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2751
Thanks: 2298
Thanked: 731 times in 626 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
DB Roy wrote:
How crazy are you when Bill O'Reilly is put off by your insane ravings?


:lol:



Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:08 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Book Discussion Leader
BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2039
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Thanks: 74
Thanked: 768 times in 594 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
Two words/one name regarding the deportation of 11 million+ illegal aliens: Elian Gonzalez. Look at what it took to return one boy to his father in Cuba. This ain't gonna happen.

Image



The following user would like to thank LanDroid for this post:
geo
Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:00 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

BookTalk.org Moderator
Platinum Contributor

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4345
Location: NC
Thanks: 1837
Thanked: 1909 times in 1429 posts
Gender: Male

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
I think it's important to understand why Trump is appealing to such a large demographic. But as DB Roy says, in the end he's even too crazy for the far right. FoxNews has already turned against him. I predict he will quickly fade to the background of this race.


_________________
-Geo
Question everything


Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:03 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5768
Location: Canberra
Thanks: 2238
Thanked: 2174 times in 1642 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Australia (au)

 Re: Trump is not a joke
DB Roy wrote:
We've never had an out-and-out fascist dictatorship in this country but I feel that we recklessly hurtle towards one without seeing, without believing. We hurtle towards it because we believe we are not hurtling towards one. And, quite quietly one great and glorious day, we will wake up and there it will be.


This was the comment that caught my eye. If you compare the USA to Germany between the World Wars, the level of crisis, despair, suffering, humiliation, threat and sudden poverty and unemployment that enabled the rise of Hitler is simply not present today, whether in the USA or elsewhere. However, similar existential conditions could emerge in coming decades. I think it is hard to imagine the affront to German pride caused by the combination of the loss of the first war, the provisions of the Treaty of Versailles, the threat perceived in the rise of communism and the broad challenge to traditional identity posed by modern liberal values in the Weimar Republic.

I don’t consider Trump a joke, although his racist demagoguery is ridiculous. He represents a basic popular intuition that success requires toughness, which means competitive confrontation. America is nowhere near ready for this mentality as a basis of power in such raw form, but like with George Wallace in the 1960s and 70s, Trump presents a strand of opinion among the Republican base whom the eventual candidate will have to appease, just as the linked Slate article helpfully explains how Nixon used an ultrasonic dog whistle to call up the racist right vote while ensuring he did not use overt racist language.

My theory of history, for what it is worth, is based on comparing the USA to ancient Rome, and seeing the causal drivers in politics as prompting a gradual shift from republic to empire. For Rome this was a very slow process. If we imagine the Punic Wars of the Roman Republic against Carthage as like the twentieth century, with Fabius Maximus the Roman FD Roosevelt and Hannibal the equivalent of Hitler, then the emergence of fascist dictatorship with the military consulships of Marius in 107 BC would still be about 25 years in the future in 2040, and a full-blown imperial tyranny would be more than a century away after a long period of civil war.

Rome's 'greatest generation' who won the war against Hannibal gave rise to a steady political degeneration in the following decades, as traditional republican values of liberty and duty were gradually supplanted by imperial centralisation of power and the emergence of a corrupted urbanity. I like to project the possibility of America following a similar path against the risk of economic collapse driven by climate change. I would say that without a paradigm change in our world economic structure the US is on a slide to military dictatorship several decades away, but I think this risk can be identified and averted through an economic and social paradigm shift.

The challenge is to promote dialogue so that the political polarisation between social justice warriors and redneck fascists can be bridged. I think this is possible, and consider that a reformed model of Christian religion will be a decisive factor, bringing together scientific reason with an understanding of human motivations, values and incentives.


_________________
http://rtulip.net


The following user would like to thank Robert Tulip for this post:
geo
Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:07 pm
Profile Email WWW
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Platinum Contributor

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6256
Location: Luray, Virginia
Thanks: 1804
Thanked: 1971 times in 1495 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
Yes, Trump is going to flame out. He's beginning to foam at the mouth, as in yesterday's rabid speech in which he called Carson a psycho. The Rubio/Cruz ticket that some pundits believe will inherit the nomination could give Clinton stiff competition.

Trump hasn't even been that wonderful as a businessman. He inherited 200 million from his dad and might have more wealth today if had socked the money away in a 401K.



Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:43 am
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!


Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 794
Thanks: 35
Thanked: 453 times in 346 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
But that's not really the issue. He will not get the nomination. We knew thatfrom the very git-go. But he is showing some future demagogue how to appeal this party's ugly, fearful, hateful base. Trump is building the soapbox that this demagogue will stand on. This person only needs to have the right charisma, looks, manners and handlers. He will package the same hatred in a pretty box with a bow on it and present it to the American people and I'm afraid that they might just accept it. They won't accept it from Trump not so much because they disagree with him but because he's such a stupid, clownish buffoon that anyone with a reasonably clear head would feel embarrassed to vote for him.

I'd like to believe that the old hatreds are dead but they are clearly not. I was arguing just a couple of days ago with a shitload of people on Facebook who are convinced that illegal immigrants will drive "real Americans" (and I'm going to assume that meant "white Americans") extinct. Yes, extinct. Then one guy says that's just what happened to the Indians and a bunch of people agree with him. Another said, that I was no different than the "many Jews" who voted Hitler into power. When I asked him to provide numbers he instead called me stupid.

So, I don't believe these old hatreds are dead. They lie either dormant or quite alive but hidden in way too many Americans (and you may read that as "white Americans" if you wish) and it wouldn't take much to get those hatreds unleashed if the right politician comes along who knows just how to use them to get himself into the White House.



Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:06 am
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!


Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 794
Thanks: 35
Thanked: 453 times in 346 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
LanDroid wrote:
Two words/one name regarding the deportation of 11 million+ illegal aliens: Elian Gonzalez. Look at what it took to return one boy to his father in Cuba. This ain't gonna happen.

Image


With the Gonzalez boy, they were looking for one person. We're talking a special police force that will simply surround and sweep large numbers of Hispanics and Latinos off the streets whether they are citizens or not. Just what we did in Iraq.

But how far will it go before they realize it won't work? The Hispanic population of New Mexico outnumbers English-speakers. How many cities will be turned into battle zones? Do we want to be stuck in the middle of an unwinnable civil war?

Some complainers even say to go to New Mexico if you think it can't happen everywhere and that scares me because at that point you're not talking simply illegal immigrants, you're talking anyone who speaks Spanish. The illegal population is spread out over the US. Most of the Hispanics in New Mexico are perfectly legal. And to complain about them simply being there reveals the racism. So what if there are more Hispanics in New Mexico? So what? I know a lot of Hispanic and Latino people. My best buddy in high school was Mexican and I dated a Mexican girl in college. I used to hang out with her family and friends--all Mexican. I never had any problems with anyone. So why should I be upset simply because there are more Mexican-Americans or Cuban-Americans in a given area? When I spent a lot of time in Charleston, SC, I realized most of North Charleston is Mexican. Everywhere I went I saw only Mexicans. Okay, so what? I was treated no differently than anywhere else I've ever been. So why should just the presence of brown-skinned Spanish-speakers bother me? The only reason it would is because I HATE brown-skinned Spanish-speakers. That's all--I HATE them. And THAT is what lies at the root of the whole illegal immigrant hysteria. It can't be because they are crowding us out--read the population count. Illegals were numbered at 12 million in 2003 with 700,000 coming every year and staying. Yet in 2007, the official count was 12 million when it should have been around 16 million. In 2011, the official count was 11.3 million. It's decreasing so what is all this damned hysteria? It isn't just xenophobia, once again, it's out-and-out racist hatred.



Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:35 am
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!


Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 794
Thanks: 35
Thanked: 453 times in 346 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
Robert Tulip wrote:
If you compare the USA to Germany between the World Wars, the level of crisis, despair, suffering, humiliation, threat and sudden poverty and unemployment that enabled the rise of Hitler is simply not present today, whether in the USA or elsewhere. However, similar existential conditions could emerge in coming decades. I think it is hard to imagine the affront to German pride caused by the combination of the loss of the first war, the provisions of the Treaty of Versailles, the threat perceived in the rise of communism and the broad challenge to traditional identity posed by modern liberal values in the Weimar Republic.


It's also wise to keep in mind that these conditions don't really have to exist if you can convince enough people that they do exist. I constantly hear from the pathological Obama-haters about how he has destroyed the country. HUH? How he is a million times worse than George W. Bush. WHA??? What they base this on is unknown to me but they clearly believe it and no amount of reasoning will change it one iota.

Quote:
My theory of history, for what it is worth, is based on comparing the USA to ancient Rome, and seeing the causal drivers in politics as prompting a gradual shift from republic to empire. For Rome this was a very slow process. If we imagine the Punic Wars of the Roman Republic against Carthage as like the twentieth century, with Fabius Maximus the Roman FD Roosevelt and Hannibal the equivalent of Hitler, then the emergence of fascist dictatorship with the military consulships of Marius in 107 BC would still be about 25 years in the future in 2040, and a full-blown imperial tyranny would be more than a century away after a long period of civil war.


It could come sooner because the rate of change today is so much more accelerated. Although your scenario doesn't exactly inspire exhalations of relief.

Quote:
Rome's 'greatest generation' who won the war against Hannibal gave rise to a steady political degeneration in the following decades, as traditional republican values of liberty and duty were gradually supplanted by imperial centralisation of power and the emergence of a corrupted urbanity. I like to project the possibility of America following a similar path against the risk of economic collapse driven by climate change. I would say that without a paradigm change in our world economic structure the US is on a slide to military dictatorship several decades away, but I think this risk can be identified and averted through an economic and social paradigm shift.


My worry is that a future demagogue understands this all too well. In 1980, Bertram Gross's book Friendly Fascism hit the shelves. Basically, he wrote of how fascistic principles are couched in rhetoric as "freedom," "human rights," "democracy." Fascism delivered with a smile. It means the opposite of what it says but its strongest believers don't know this. They take it at face value. We see it at work when Dylann Roof killed those black people in a racist attack that the right wing tries to minimize as an attack on "religious liberty." Almost assuredly, those who took this tack believed in it wholeheartedly and that's what's so scary. The worst encroachments on our freedoms will come with rhetoric that it's really freedom and the consolidation of national will.

Quote:
The challenge is to promote dialogue so that the political polarisation between social justice warriors and redneck fascists can be bridged. I think this is possible, and consider that a reformed model of Christian religion will be a decisive factor, bringing together scientific reason with an understanding of human motivations, values and incentives.


I agree which is why I elsewhere in this forum offered a layout of an alternate Christianity.



The following user would like to thank DB Roy for this post:
Robert Tulip
Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:41 pm
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Platinum Contributor

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6256
Location: Luray, Virginia
Thanks: 1804
Thanked: 1971 times in 1495 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
DB Roy wrote:
But that's not really the issue. He will not get the nomination. We knew thatfrom the very git-go. But he is showing some future demagogue how to appeal this party's ugly, fearful, hateful base. Trump is building the soapbox that this demagogue will stand on. This person only needs to have the right charisma, looks, manners and handlers. He will package the same hatred in a pretty box with a bow on it and present it to the American people and I'm afraid that they might just accept it. They won't accept it from Trump not so much because they disagree with him but because he's such a stupid, clownish buffoon that anyone with a reasonably clear head would feel embarrassed to vote for him.

I'd like to believe that the old hatreds are dead but they are clearly not. I was arguing just a couple of days ago with a shitload of people on Facebook who are convinced that illegal immigrants will drive "real Americans" (and I'm going to assume that meant "white Americans") extinct. Yes, extinct. Then one guy says that's just what happened to the Indians and a bunch of people agree with him. Another said, that I was no different than the "many Jews" who voted Hitler into power. When I asked him to provide numbers he instead called me stupid.

So, I don't believe these old hatreds are dead. They lie either dormant or quite alive but hidden in way too many Americans (and you may read that as "white Americans" if you wish) and it wouldn't take much to get those hatreds unleashed if the right politician comes along who knows just how to use them to get himself into the White House.

An interesting wrinkle in the Trump saga I just read about concerns the Florida primary next spring, the first big winner-take-all primary. If either of the current front-runners are still way ahead in that state (Rubio, Cruz, and Bush are well behind now), the 99 delegates for the winner may put the more legitimate candidates in a perhaps fatal deficit. So I could have been wrong about Trump (or Carson) gassing out. Even if he still does, his main effect has been to shove the rest of the Republican hopefuls to the right.



Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:36 am
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!


Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 794
Thanks: 35
Thanked: 453 times in 346 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
Exactly, he has made the ugliness more public, more fashionable. In the future, to get anywhere, GOP candidates will have to sing that song and dance that dance. Some will do it while not really believing in it but some will believe in it. I don't know which is worse.

After the attacks in Paris, Anne "I am no longer the GOP fringe" Coulter stated that "we just elected Donald Trump president tonight." Now while I don't believe this to be anywhere close to true (no one can seriously believe that Trump has any idea of what he'll be dealing with), we can't dismiss her statement outright. These attacks, if they spread (and they just might), will push American politics to the further and further right. People will want strong leaders who won't take any shit--fuck human rights, that's for liberal pussy fags. And that sets the stage for a fascist dictatorship. That's exactly how Hitler built his appeal--he looked strong and stalwart and made his enemies quake in fear, he'll take back what is rightfully Germany's, he'll make our enemies respect and fear us.

In the wake of 9-11, we watched Americans willingly give up freedoms for imaginary security. In the face of another 9-11, those freedoms will be pretty much gone. We're cowards at heart. No one said anything about the illegality of the Patriot Act and had no problem that Bush had used the telecommunications corporations to help him spy on illegally Americans (he bypassed the FISA court)--all of which was revealed in 2006 but when Snowden goes and reveals the identical information some years later, suddenly we're demanding that the spying stop (despite the fact that these programs are now FISA-approved). We all the know the reason: Bush was president then and Obama is president now. Anyone who tells me that that is not the reason is either an idiot or a liar. Snowden didn't reveal anything that every American should not have already known for years. But polls taken back then showed that Americans overwhelmingly supported it and that is why the current administration carried on with it as will the next no matter who it is. Once you allow it, you're stuck with it. We clearly haven't learned this lesson. We are clearly not going to learn it.

Once you get a guy in the White House who looks strong and ruthless, Americans will immediately bow down and do his bidding. They've spit at Obama only because his responses are measured, restrained and civil (i.e. he's a weakling). Remember how these idiots couldn't shut up about how there were no terrorist attacks with Bush in charge (despite his allowing the largest terrorist attack on American soil)? That rhetoric all but vanished the day Obama took office despite 2 terms with no notable terrorist attacks in the US, despite the fact that he took Osama out which his predecessor failed to do even though he PROMISED he would. They're real tough guys with Obama but couldn't stop licking Bush's ass. And it will happen again if they can get their guy in the White House. A guy who will be strong and ruthless and shut down his detractors. And sooner or later, I'm afraid, they will.



The following user would like to thank DB Roy for this post:
geo
Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:18 am
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!


Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 794
Thanks: 35
Thanked: 453 times in 346 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
Interestingly, here in Michigan, the republican-controlled legislature is trying to pass a bill eliminating single-punch voting cards. This is the card where you can just punch one hole to vote a straight ticket. I used it in the last election for the first time. I always previously voted for individual candidates but was so fed up with Republican bullshit that I punched a straight democratic ticket in 2012 although it didn't do any good for the state, the republicans won hugely.

So now the Michigan GOP is introducing a bill to eliminate one-punch voting. Now there could be legitimate reasons for it, right? Except there aren't. The very reason they gave is that one-punch voting tends to favor democrats. So they are going to re-do the ballots to make it harder to vote for their opposition. It has nothing to do with making voting easier or less cumbersome--in fact, the opposite. If you want to vote a straight ticket, you have to do it page-by-page if this becomes law. Hopefully, then, you might pick some republicans by mistake.



Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:48 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Nutty for Books


Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1581
Location: Dublin
Thanks: 832
Thanked: 704 times in 604 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Ireland (ie)

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
My Post got duplicated by me in in correcting bad links. See the next post.



Last edited by Flann 5 on Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:17 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Nutty for Books


Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1581
Location: Dublin
Thanks: 832
Thanked: 704 times in 604 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Ireland (ie)

Post Re: Trump is not a joke
DB Roy wrote:
Trump continues fanning the flames of racist and xenophobic hatred by saying he would implement a program to deport all 11.3 million illegal immigrants which he compared to the Eisenhower Administration's disastrous 1954 program that deported 1 million illegals called "Operation Wetback," the brain-child of the attorney-general Herbert Brownell, Jr. What amounted to a secret police force operating above and outside the law abducted these immigrants indiscriminately so that families were ripped apart and people who were actually legal citizens were rounded up, herded like slaughterhouse cattle, and released deep in the deserts of Mexico where many, with nothing but the clothes on their backs, died of dehydration or exposure.


You rail against this and I agree with you. Here's another quote from you D.B. "Indonesian Muslims are every bit as bat- shit crazy as the ones in the Middle East and possibly worse".

That's the kind of rhetoric that goes down well at far right rallies against Syrian immigrant refugees in Dresden and other parts of Europe.
Do you disagree with Marine Le Pen,Gert Wilders and other like minded people on their views of how Syrian refugees should be treated?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 59357.html
None of what's happening in France is simple but is rooted in political realities as well as the Sunni Shia divide within Islam and real history.
Here's one view of these issues. http://www.independent.co.uk/author/robert-fisk

And here's a documentary on the rise of Isil with the utterly confusing clash and sometimes temporary agreement of the various political interests of many nations.
It's a pity about the thousands of dead civilians and those still alive who are caught in the middle of all this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsHrULpYeFk The Rise of ISIL.



Last edited by Flann 5 on Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:20 pm
Profile Email
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 209 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 14  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
How To Promote Your Book





BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2019. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank