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Police reform and systemic racism under Obama 
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Post Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
In 8 years of Obama / Biden and the Democrats owning the House and Senate, what police reform was accomplished?
How was systemic racism addressed during The Messiah's presidency?

Someone enlighten me. I'd appreciate it.



Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:37 am
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
ant wrote:
In 8 years of Obama / Biden and the Democrats owning the House and Senate, what police reform was accomplished?
How was systemic racism addressed during The Messiah's presidency?

Someone enlighten me. I'd appreciate it.

You must have all ready googled to check out the claim Trump made a couple of days ago. Tell us what you found.



Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:28 am
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
DWill wrote:
ant wrote:
In 8 years of Obama / Biden and the Democrats owning the House and Senate, what police reform was accomplished?
How was systemic racism addressed during The Messiah's presidency?

Someone enlighten me. I'd appreciate it.

You must have all ready googled to check out the claim Trump made a couple of days ago. Tell us what you found.



No I actually haven't.

I'm a person of color who has never been privileged like you (by your own admission).
I lived through the Obama years and experienced racism during those 8 years and was well aware of its existence in society regardless of having a black president. And I actually asked this question about a week and a half ago but got no response. Look it up.

Did you sleep through the Obama years? That might be the reason why are trying to pigeon hole me with the presumptuous nonsense that I "must have" googled Trump prior to this post.

Your response here is condescending and very typical of the white liberal branding that's been rampant these past 4 years.



Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:42 am
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
ant wrote:
DWill wrote:

ant wrote:
In 8 years of Obama / Biden and the Democrats owning the House and Senate, what police reform was accomplished?
How was systemic racism addressed during The Messiah's presidency?

Someone enlighten me. I'd appreciate it.

You must have all ready googled to check out the claim Trump made a couple of days ago. Tell us what you found.





What I appreciate about this site is that most of the contributors are genuinely interested in uncovering some level of truth about the topic under discussion.

With regard to the Obama administration and police reform, why would you say that nothing was done when dozens of internet sites describe actions and calls to action that were done. Of course, any progressive minded person would have expected that much more should have been done, especially in the first term when he had the numbers to enact reforms. I think a more informative discussion would recognize the reforms he did enact and try to determine WHY more wasn't done.

With regards to Trump's recent comment about police reform, it might be worth reflecting on the following:

"There are three key ways that Trump’s Department of Justice has eroded or outright dismantled checks on abusive police departments in the past 3½ years: First, it has all but ended the Barack Obama–era practice of placing police departments that violate constitutional rights under court-supervised consent decrees. These court-monitored settlements have, according to experts, offered some deterrent to police chiefs who do not want to see their departments placed under federal supervision. Second, it ended a voluntary federal-state collaborative reform program, over the opposition of police chiefs—including Republicans—who embraced the initiative. Finally, it reversed limits on a program that has provided billions of dollars of military-grade vehicles and weapons—such as grenade launchers and bayonets—to local police departments.

These reforms were either introduced or escalated in response to the police killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, in 2014 and the subsequent heavily armed police crackdown on Black Lives Matter protests. As soon as he took office, Trump has undone them one by one."

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... eform.html



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Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:03 am
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
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With regard to the Obama administration and police reform, why would you say that nothing was done when dozens of internet sites describe actions and calls to action that were done. Of course, any progressive minded person would have expected that much more should have been done, especially in the first term when he had the numbers to enact reforms. I think a more informative discussion would recognize the reforms he did enact and try to determine WHY more wasn't done.


Why would you respond with a blatant lie by claiming someone said "nothing was done" when its clear the initial questions was in fact "WHAT police reform was accomplished" during the Obama years..

"what" as in please provide examples based on legislative fact and not cheap talking points from the past or present.

"Dozens of internet sites" describing calls for action during the Obama years does not compare to actual legislative reform authored by the Obama Admin addressing police reform.


You see? This is what I mean by cheap talking points and people mistaking journalistic activism for factual reporting.

You are not "progressive" if you are blind to what Democrats do and do not do when they hold seats of power.
You are simply a cheerleader blindly cheering on your Dear Leaders



Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:57 am
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
ant wrote:
DWill wrote:
ant wrote:
In 8 years of Obama / Biden and the Democrats owning the House and Senate, what police reform was accomplished?
How was systemic racism addressed during The Messiah's presidency?

Someone enlighten me. I'd appreciate it.

You must have all ready googled to check out the claim Trump made a couple of days ago. Tell us what you found.



No I actually haven't.

I'm a person of color who has never been privileged like you (by your own admission).
I lived through the Obama years and experienced racism during those 8 years and was well aware of its existence in society regardless of having a black president. And I actually asked this question about a week and a half ago but got no response. Look it up.

Did you sleep through the Obama years? That might be the reason why are trying to pigeon hole me with the presumptuous nonsense that I "must have" googled Trump prior to this post.

Your response here is condescending and very typical of the white liberal branding that's been rampant these past 4 years.

It was your pugnacious and very sarcastic approach that led to my initial response. The information that Lev V has since cited has been in common circulation, so it didn't seem likely that you were unaware of it. But if you say you were, I believe you and apologize for offending. Regarding your response to Lev V, calling what he referenced "talking points" seems odd to me. He's not in a position to do original reporting, so he goes to a source claiming to have found relevant facts. You can dispute those in any way you choose, but he has simply cited a source that he considers trustworthy, and that's what we generally do here.



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Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:41 pm
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
Quote:
The information that Lev V has since cited has been in common circulation, so it didn't seem likely that you were unaware of it.


What information is that?

I am asking if any legislative reform related to police misconduct was effectuated under the Obama Administration's 8 years of leadership.

Do I actually have to spell it out like that?


It is a fair question.

"information .. in common circulation" is verbal frolic and nothing more.
And you know that it is.



Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:57 pm
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
ant wrote:
In 8 years of Obama / Biden and the Democrats owning the House and Senate, what police reform was accomplished?
How was systemic racism addressed during The Messiah's presidency?


As usual, you have created a strawman based on your perception of liberals, who worship Obama as "the Messiah." But whatever, LevV mentioned Obama-era reforms that have since been undone by Trump and your response was hostile and belligerent. I don’t think you even read his response.

Your question is also peculiarly framed. I would suggest that race relations is a complicated arena. What was happening during Obama’s presidency has changed and requires a different response than what is happening now, under Trump’s presidency. Police brutality is much more in the spotlight, and the call to reform police has become a far more urgent matter.

I’d agree that many of Trump’s critics today would not have been so harsh with Obama, but there you only have a fact of life. Obama was loudly criticized by the far-right for many things during his presidency, including race relations.

I don’t think we can have an apples-to-apples objective comparison of Obama versus Trump. But I do see that a Rasmussen poll in in July of 2016 showed that 60 percent of Americans believed that race relations deteriorated under Obama. Whereas, more recent polls seem to show race relations improving slightly under Trump.

—> Only 25% believe race relations are getting better, while 43% say they’re getting worse.
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... are_racist

Then again, a large number of Americans consider Trump a racist. With recent protests, it seems questionable that race relations are actually improving under this president, but then I also see race relations as more of a larger trend that ebbs and flows the way the economy does. In other words, race relations cannot be easily pinned to any one president. But over the long view, I do see a lather trend towards greater equality and fairness, even with short-term ups and downs (and considering who the current president is). But a black man being elected president of the United States would have been unfathomable 40 years go. The first black president shows we have come a long way.

from a BBC article . . .
Quote:
Hollywood did not become colourblind the moment in 1964 that Sidney Poitier became the first black man to win best actor at the Academy Awards any more than discrimination ended in the justice system when Thurgood Marshall first donned the billowing robes of a Supreme Court jurist.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38536668


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Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:26 pm
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
Ant "I am asking if any legislative reform related to police misconduct was effectuated under the Obama Administration's 8 years of leadership."

I see you are more specific now with your insertion of the word "legislative" in describing the type of reform you were asking about. Had you been that specific the first time, I may have responded differently.

In any case, I have nothing invested in this. I am not Black and I don't even live in your country. But I have had many heated discussions with my African Canadian friends about the Obama years and why he didn't or wouldn't or couldn't do more in those areas discussed above. I just have a personal interest in hearing from anyone who can shed more light on the subject.



Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:31 pm
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
I asked for an "accomplishment" which would undoubtedly mean to most people a request for something tangible to review.
Within this context it isn't ambiguous.

What you're doing here is splitting hairs and being dishonest. You did have something invested here (your political position) because you jumped into the conversation but had no" light to shed" on the topic.

Now that you are clear about it you sill can't respond any differently and you know why.
You cannot be honest with yourself and neither can any others here at BT.



Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:21 am
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
Geo wrote:

Quote:
I don’t think we can have an apples-to-apples objective comparison of Obama versus Trump



You are creating a strawman again to answer a very direct question, Geo. You have turned arguments of fallacy into unsophisticated tactics to avoid having to answer questions that you seemingly want to defend but can't.

I have not asked for any comparisons to be made either.

Here's what I asked:

Quote:
if any legislative reform related to police misconduct was effectuated under the Obama Administration's 8 years of leadership.


You are dancing around the question like Fred Astaire.



So the answer to my question is no - NO legislative reform was done in 8 years under Obama, Joe, and the Democrats.
And despite having control of both The House and The Senate from about January 2009 to November 2010 nothing was done as well.
Is that correct?


If police brutality is the serious issue that it is, why didn't the Democrats take it seriously enough in the 8 years prior to Trump?
Was 8 years not enough time? Why no legislation to address it then?

Don't strawman the question with accusations of strawmen. That is getting old now.



Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:54 am
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
ant wrote:


Quote:
if any legislative reform related to police misconduct was effectuated under the Obama Administration's 8 years of leadership.





You're doing it again - inserting a critical word that was not there in your original question. Your original question did not have the word "legislative" attached to the word reform. I was simply responding to the question as written - listing a few reforms that were started and noting how they were erased by the current president.

By the way, I also believe that Obama could have done much more when he appeared to have the necessary votes to enact effective legislation. But, to me, a more interesting discussion includes attempting to determine WHY more was not done in the area of police reform, and ant-racism.



Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:06 pm
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
DWill wrote:
It was your pugnacious and very sarcastic approach that led to my initial response.

If I was in a family with ant, I would get pretty fed up with the "I never said that" line. It has become clear by now that ant likes to dance up to the line of saying offensive things and then dance away from them when somebody takes the bait. I'm trying to just enjoy watching the dance - it has a certain artistry.



Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:10 pm
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
ant wrote:
I am asking if any legislative reform related to police misconduct was effectuated under the Obama Administration's 8 years of leadership.

Do I actually have to spell it out like that?

Does anyone need to be reminded that McConnell vowed not to allow any legislative success to Obama? Anything that was accomplished after the 2010 election reaction against the ACA (which I am learning was as much a response to political manipulation by the billionaires) was entirely due to administrative regulations.

And most of those that mattered have been rolled back by Trump, as LevV's citations observed.



Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:16 pm
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Post Re: Police reform and systemic racism under Obama
LevV wrote:
ant wrote:


Quote:
if any legislative reform related to police misconduct was effectuated under the Obama Administration's 8 years of leadership.





You're doing it again - inserting a critical word that was not there in your original question. Your original question did not have the word "legislative" attached to the word reform. I was simply responding to the question as written - listing a few reforms that were started and noting how they were erased by the current president.

By the way, I also believe that Obama could have done much more when he appeared to have the necessary votes to enact effective legislation. But, to me, a more interesting discussion includes attempting to determine WHY more was not done in the area of police reform, and ant-racism.



You are doing it again only this time after I cleaned up the question even more so that you would not use old talking points that do not include sources that show evidence of documented attempts our actual legislation.

Stop - you are now just here in this conversation to whine.

At the very least I will give you credit for not doing what Harry is doing - pointing the finger at someone else who was responsible for no reform in 8 years of democratic leadership and a full year of owning both the House and the Senate. This is one reason why liberals in our country can not be taken seriously by discerning citizens

Maybe it's time to clean up your own country though..
You have a president that wore black face and thought it was cute, when in actuality it was an offensive play to most black people.

Such is the gross hypocrisy of liberalism. It is old, defunct and impotent in the old minds of those who claim they subscribe to its philosophy.
It is so demonstrated by the lack of leadership seen here in the States.



Last edited by ant on Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:14 pm
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