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Harry Marks wrote:There's a certain amount of glee in the Progressive Christian community about how poorly the evangelicals have done in dealing with abusive male leaders. Of course, progressives include a fair number of abusive leaders as well. No group seems to be immune. The dynamics of interaction with self-absorption and ego are worth some serious study, in this age of mass communication and celebrity.

For instance, if dominating others is an addiction, as it seems to have been for Harvey Weinstein, what are we learning about enablers and the role of money in shaping them to be that? And if that's what idol-worship looks like, what does that tell us about worship in general, and therefore the true God in particular?

Can you please define "progressive christian" for me, please?

Litwitlou wrote:

DB Roy wrote:I don't give a fuck what any man does to any woman until Donald Trump is investigated for the accusations against him. He has WAY more women accusing him than Tyson or anybody does. If Trump is allowed to get away, then they should all be allowed to get away.

That's what the Trumpettes say every time someone knocks their idol. "Well Hillary, blah blah blah, emails, blah blah Benghazi, blah blah Uranium 1. Then they start on Obama.

Hillary isn't president and she doesn't have any sexual assault charges against her. If Trump molested one of my daughters, I'd fucking kill him!! I don't care if he's the president. And it shouldn't matter. I'm sick of how we let presidents act above the law.

ant wrote:

Harry Marks wrote:There's a certain amount of glee in the Progressive Christian community about how poorly the evangelicals have done in dealing with abusive male leaders. Of course, progressives include a fair number of abusive leaders as well. No group seems to be immune. The dynamics of interaction with self-absorption and ego are worth some serious study, in this age of mass communication and celebrity.

For instance, if dominating others is an addiction, as it seems to have been for Harvey Weinstein, what are we learning about enablers and the role of money in shaping them to be that? And if that's what idol-worship looks like, what does that tell us about worship in general, and therefore the true God in particular?

Can you please define "progressive christian" for me, please?

Yeah and for me too please.

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Progressive Christianity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Christianity

ant wrote:Can you please define "progressive christian" for me, please?

There is no tight definition, but if you look over the Patheos "Progressive Christian" channel you will see some of the range of differences and some of the common traits.

In general, Progressive Christianity has different concerns from Evangelical Christianity, and different points of reference from progressive Roman Catholics. Progressive Christians tend to be liberal in theology, seeing the inspiration of Scripture as something like how we usually use "inspiration" rather than as supernatural revelation. We tend to see "salvation" as something happening in this life and this world, and "sin" in terms of social systems as much as, or more than, personal morals. As a result of all this, social justice is a strong theme and most Progressive Christians affirm same-sex marriage and LGBTQ people in general. Be careful about identifying it with progressive politics: many Progressive Christians are anti-abortion and many, especially in the peace churches such as the Mennonites, can be quite traditional about gender roles.

My wife's cousin, Delwin Brown, wrote a successful book in 2004 entitled "What Does a Progressive Christian Believe?" I have read it and found it very interesting, but I no longer remember many of the specifics. I was struck by the way he found common conclusions among theologians employing very different methods and assumptions. That is the way Christianity as a whole is supposed to work, actually, that concepts like grace and the Body of Christ are supposed to prove out to be very much the same whether you start from experience, philosophy, pious exposition of scripture or radical sociological deconstruction.

Litwitlou wrote:.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Christianity

I thought the wiki piece was pretty good, though I suspect Roger Wolsey had more role in writing it than one person should. I like his stuff, but he pushes panentheism as if it is definitional, which it really is not. He also very much likes to think of the movement as defined by post-modern approaches to texts and tradition, which is basically fair but certainly would not fit many who call themselves Progressive Christians.

The end of the piece lists criticisms in terms of Greta Vosper and John Shelby Spong, who are two of the most controversial of high-profile Progressive Christians, and so, again, are not really representative. Yet you would find most of us in the movement much more critical of figures in the Religious Right than of Vosper or Spong.

Litwitlou wrote:.
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Progressive Christianity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Christianity

Thanks, but I wanted to read his definition.

Harry Marks wrote:

ant wrote:Can you please define "progressive christian" for me, please?

There is no tight definition, but if you look over the Patheos "Progressive Christian" channel you will see some of the range of differences and some of the common traits.

In general, Progressive Christianity has different concerns from Evangelical Christianity, and different points of reference from progressive Roman Catholics. Progressive Christians tend to be liberal in theology, seeing the inspiration of Scripture as something like how we usually use "inspiration" rather than as supernatural revelation. We tend to see "salvation" as something happening in this life and this world, and "sin" in terms of social systems as much as, or more than, personal morals. As a result of all this, social justice is a strong theme and most Progressive Christians affirm same-sex marriage and LGBTQ people in general. Be careful about identifying it with progressive politics: many Progressive Christians are anti-abortion and many, especially in the peace churches such as the Mennonites, can be quite traditional about gender roles.

My wife's cousin, Delwin Brown, wrote a successful book in 2004 entitled "What Does a Progressive Christian Believe?" I have read it and found it very interesting, but I no longer remember many of the specifics. I was struck by the way he found common conclusions among theologians employing very different methods and assumptions. That is the way Christianity as a whole is supposed to work, actually, that concepts like grace and the Body of Christ are supposed to prove out to be very much the same whether you start from experience, philosophy, pious exposition of scripture or radical sociological deconstruction.

Thanks.

Do you believe in a personal God?
(you don't have to answer that question, of course)

ant wrote:Thanks.

Do you believe in a personal God?
(you don't have to answer that question, of course)

No problem, as long as you don't take my views to be definitive for Progressive Christians.

When I say, "Jesus is divine" what I mean is that he was a specific and material manifestation of the spirit of love, or perhaps you would better understand if I say the "spirit of caring." I don't know what a "personal God" is - the spirit of caring interacts with people all the time, both internally (inside a person's self) and between people. But not as an individual, choice-making participant in the flow of time.

I don't generally think of God as creator. The ideas I work from are probably best explained in terms of Process Theology. It isn't quite right to say "God is a process" but that's better (for my relationship) than "God is a person." A spirit is a relationship (e.g. between people, or between means and ends) that is capable of modifying itself. Roughly speaking, any process or entity that can reflect and "change its mind" about its goals is a spirit.

I realize this does not match well with what the Bible says, especially the Old Testament. I think of the OT character as a symbol for the deeper, more complex process I think we are supposed to relate to. I think of stories of supernatural events as primarily the ancient way of saying things were significant, that is, they signified something important. Maybe supernatural stuff happens, but we have our hands full dealing with significance.