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Re: The Art of No Deal

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:09 am
by Harry Marks
Well, that's an interesting approach to politics. When they go low, hit below the belt. Why not?

I am tempted to say, "the backers of penis politics get what they wanted," i.e. screwed, but the rest of us get hosed in the deal.

Re: The Art of No Deal

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:37 am
by Harry Marks
DB Roy wrote: The followers of Q call themselves Anons. Their slogan is "wwg1wga" which stands for "where we go one, we go all."

Remember when Edgar Maddison Welch walked into the Comet Ping Pong Pizzeria in DC and opened fire? He was an early follower of Q on 4chan. That should prove that the whole Q thing is a load of shit. Welch himself was quite angry upon discovering the pizzeria had no basement and no children in need of rescue. Luckily, nobody had to die to prove it. Next time, I wouldn't count on it.
So if one person brings an assault rifle to a pizzeria because it's really a pedophile ring, they all will. Why is it that the most sheep-like people seem incapable of sheepishness? I mean really, people who believe the most ridiculous things about their "enemies" are the easiest to actually trick into some kind of bizarrely stupid action.

There's no need to threaten people to get them to line up in conformist conspiracy. They are longing for a pretext.

DB Roy wrote:Q is just made for those weak-minded individuals that revel in conspiracy theory and so they are inherently dangerous people. The more laughable and convoluted their theories are just makes it that much worse.
DB Roy wrote:How certain can we be that the Las Vegas shooting, for example, wasn't inspired by Q? Stephen Paddock wasn't a Muslim or sympathetic to them. He was, in fact, the kid of guy that votes for Trump and who would likely be an Anon. To this day, no motive for the shooting has been uncovered and that's certainly a bit strange. He didn't just wake up one day and decide to kill people.
Okay, my mind is feeling weak. Sure, it could be that such people are ginned up to the job by some Western version of ISIS, maybe paid by Richard Spencer, using funds from Robert Mercer or Vlad the Impaler. Interesting to speculate about what goal such an agent provocateur might have been used for. But truth be told, I would rather just work with the simplest and most obvious explanation, which is that he woke up one day and decided he wanted to kill as many people as he could, than go down that rabbit hole.
DB Roy wrote: Could Q be run by a group that preaches to large numbers in hopes of netting themselves that individual that can be manipulated into committing extreme violence--the kind of violence that alarms communities, puts them on edge, pits society against itself? How long has this been carried out?
And of course, you don't even have to go that far. You can be exposed as a total fraud and there will still be lots of people eager to follow you if it means they can put communities on edge and pit society against itself, and can be in charge of casting themselves as the answer to it.

Re: The Art of No Deal

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:37 am
by DB Roy
Harry Marks wrote:Well, that's an interesting approach to politics. When they go low, hit below the belt. Why not?

I am tempted to say, "the backers of penis politics get what they wanted," i.e. screwed, but the rest of us get hosed in the deal.
It's really not novel at all. In the past, politics often got rough and tumble. I recall a senator named Charles Sumner who made some remarks during a speech in Congress in 1856 against a South Carolina senator, Andrew Butler, calling him an imbecile. Stephen Douglas whispered to a colleague, "That damn fool is going to get himself killed by some other damn fool." Two days later, a representative from South Carolina named Preston Brooks, a relative of Senator Butler, attacked Sumner with a gold-tipped cane and beat him severely on the floor of the Senate chamber. Sumner spent pretty much the rest of his life recovering and had big swatch of his scalp missing.

Congress was unable to kick Brooks out of Congress. They couldn't get the votes! Instead, he resigned and went back to South Carolina where he was presented with a new gold-tipped cane engraved with the phrase, "Hit him again." In fact, Brooks returned the Congress the following month and remained there until his death in 1857.

When it's an honor issue, the public will give you a pass (Charles Barkley smashed a guy in the face and knocked him out in the parking lot of a bar for insulting his fiance and was acquitted--and this was a black man striking a white man). Bush had the perfect opportunity to get rid of Trump once and for all and he missed it. They all missed it. None of them had the guts proving none of them were fit to be president.

Re: The Art of No Deal

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:13 am
by LanDroid
I'm somewhat interested in the QAnon conspiracies, have looked into it a little bit. One fact: Q posts started in October 2017. So the pizza gate shooting in Dec. 2016 could not have been inspired by Q. The Las Vegas shooting was on 10/1/17 so that is also extremely unlikely to be influenced by Q, the shooter planned for a long time.

A lesson from the McMartin preschool panic of the 1980s is that when accusations of massive child abuse or pedophilia are claimed, you are most likely looking at a growing hysteria. That should probably be the default starting point, then look for compelling evidence to the contrary. That's what the Q phenom has become, sheer hysteria.

Just when QAnon is getting more into the MSM news cycle, it may be starting to break down. I've seen a few recent posts from Q supporters claiming Q = LARP = Live Action Role Playing = a hoax! (Evidently he made some huge predictions that didn't come true.) However I've also seen a few posts like "Even if Q is LARP it's a good thing because he is bringing us Patriots closer together and making us stronger!" Wow... :x
Disclaimer: this is after a cursory review, I could be way off...

Re: The Art of No Deal

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:37 am
by DB Roy
Harry Marks wrote: So if one person brings an assault rifle to a pizzeria because it's really a pedophile ring, they all will.
Come again?
Why is it that the most sheep-like people seem incapable of sheepishness? I mean really, people who believe the most ridiculous things about their "enemies" are the easiest to actually trick into some kind of bizarrely stupid action.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire
There's no need to threaten people to get them to line up in conformist conspiracy. They are longing for a pretext.
They perceive their own threats. Q thinks we're going to be taken over by pedophiles running the democratic party.
Okay, my mind is feeling weak. Sure, it could be that such people are ginned up to the job by some Western version of ISIS, maybe paid by Richard Spencer, using funds from Robert Mercer or Vlad the Impaler. Interesting to speculate about what goal such an agent provocateur might have been used for. But truth be told, I would rather just work with the simplest and most obvious explanation, which is that he woke up one day and decided he wanted to kill as many people as he could, than go down that rabbit hole.
Investigators themselves called it an example of "meticulous planning." So, no, he didn't just wake up that morning and decided to do this. He had planned it carefully for a long time. Then there is the issue of his missing hard drive. What was on it? Could be anything--maybe child porn--but clearly it was something he did not want anyone to know about. But there is no evidence he was motivated by ideology or was linked to any groups at all. The problem is, there is NOTHING to indicate why he killed all these people. The idea that he would have thought conservative white country music fans to be some kind of enemy is pretty far-fetched but then WHY?? They also said his health was bad and his sex life was declining but so what? That's true of a lot of aging people. You don't go on a mass-shooting spree over it. He wasn't in debt. He sent his girlfriend out of the country before the shooting so he clearly wanted her out of harm's way. So why? Nothing about it adds up.

What strikes me is that he is squarely in Trump's demographic. He was even, like Trump, he was a germophobe. He was someone that a group could get access to and work on. The whole thing just makes no sense. In most mass shootings, there are always signs that the shooter was off the deep end and had big problems and felt trapped and helpless--his marriage fell apart (Paddock not married), crippling debt (Paddock had no debt), a Muslim who felt he and his people were being persecuted (Paddock was typical middle aged white man with no known Muslim sympathies), mental illness (Paddock not mentally ill). There is nothing here--nothing. It doesn't make sense. It's as though he might have been controlled somehow by someone. Work on him, get him to destroy evidence of any contact with them. It's possible. I'm not saying it's Q. I'm saying Q is likely part of something larger organization with a Bannon-like idea of toppling the state. We also see plenty of examples of Trump-voters threatening violence if Trump is removed from office and Trump himself has promised as much during his campaign.
And of course, you don't even have to go that far. You can be exposed as a total fraud and there will still be lots of people eager to follow you if it means they can put communities on edge and pit society against itself, and can be in charge of casting themselves as the answer to it.
But why waste opportunities? If lone wolves present themselves why wouldn't a group seeking destruction of the state not make use of them? Teach them how to plan, leave no evidence that can be traced.

It's possible is all I'm saying. I have, in all my years, never seen anything like this presidency. Would that I never see it again. A president with his own fanatical, devoted cult reay to do anything he tells them. I've never seen anything remotely like this.

Re: The Art of No Deal

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:55 am
by DB Roy
LanDroid wrote:I'm somewhat interested in the QAnon conspiracies, have looked into it a little bit. One fact: Q posts started in October 2017. So the pizza gate shooting in Dec. 2016 could not have been inspired by Q. The Las Vegas shooting was on 10/1/17 so that is also extremely unlikely to be influenced by Q, the shooter planned for a long time.
There was an early Q thing going on on 4chan. It was exactly the same kind of shit. He didn't start calling himself Q until after Trump made the Calm before the storm reference. In all likelihood, Q is just one of many people all engaged in the same conspiracy theory. He got lucky. What's frightening is that Trump has brought a lot of people into the govt who believe this stuff. Michael Flynn and his son, for example. And Flynn was no outsider--he's a career military man with lots of contacts.
A lesson from the McMartin preschool panic of the 1980s is that when accusations of massive child abuse or pedophilia are claimed, you are most likely looking at a growing hysteria. That should probably be the default starting point, then look for compelling evidence to the contrary. That's what the Q phenom has become, sheer hysteria.
This is not the same thing. Satanic Panic was launched among the general public who believed it because of that idiot, Geraldo. The general public doesn't buy Q Anon for a second--it's just kooky. But that's the problem. It will always remain fringe--maybe even among the fringe--and there it will fester and spread until its hardcore adherents decide something has to be done because the public isn't listening.

On the other hand, the best thing we can do is talk about it. Share the info. Shine light on it. It's like a mold. Throw light on that it stays contained. Ignore it and it grows an grows and grows until we're looking around and saying "Where did all this come from??" 4 chan and 8chan have been that mold. But now they are getting a lot of light thrown on them. Of course, even if they shut down, they'll just do to the dark web. Most of them are already on it. Eventually we'll need to raid the dark web and shine a light on all the huge array of disgusting creepy-crawlies breeding down there.
Just when QAnon is getting more into the MSM news cycle, it may be starting to break down. I've seen a few recent posts from Q supporters claiming Q = LARP = Live Action Role Playing = a hoax! (Evidently he made some huge predictions that didn't come true.) However I've also seen a few posts like "Even if Q is LARP it's a good thing because he is bringing us Patriots closer together and making us stronger!" Wow... :x
Disclaimer: this is after a cursory review, I could be way off...
As I said, talking about it will likely force it more underground but we can't stop there. We have to keep pursuing. Chasing the termites into the cellar won't stop them from destroying your home.

Re: The Art of No Deal

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:50 pm
by LanDroid
In a reverse funhouse mirror conspiracy theory It's Looking Extremely Likely That QAnon Is A Leftist Prank On Trump Supporters.

Also entertaining: the hacking collective Anonymous vows to take down, expose QAnon

:lol: :clap:

Re: The Art of No Deal

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:23 am
by Harry Marks
DB Roy wrote:
Harry Marks wrote: So if one person brings an assault rifle to a pizzeria because it's really a pedophile ring, they all will.
Come again?
I was just reflecting on the implications of "one, then all" when one of them bought the bogus story about the pedophile ring in the pizzeria. Like, doesn't their slogan obligate them all to do the same idiotic thing?
DB Roy wrote:
But truth be told, I would rather just work with the simplest and most obvious explanation, which is that he woke up one day and decided he wanted to kill as many people as he could, than go down that rabbit hole.
Investigators themselves called it an example of "meticulous planning." So, no, he didn't just wake up that morning and decided to do this. He had planned it carefully for a long time.
Well, the morning he decided to kill people was well in advance of the date of the deed. Obviously I don't know, but there do seem to be people out there who just want to make a mark, so to speak.
DB Roy wrote:Then there is the issue of his missing hard drive. What was on it? Could be anything--maybe child porn--but clearly it was something he did not want anyone to know about.
Yeah, anytime a hard drive goes missing, it raises suspicions. I don't think it's a big problem to be suspicious, and to wonder, but I am clearly not going to get close enough to the truth to make it worthwhile for me to investigate, so I would rather think about the mysteries of economics. Or religion. Or music. Or raising mushrooms. Nearly anything.
DB Roy wrote: He sent his girlfriend out of the country before the shooting so he clearly wanted her out of harm's way. So why? Nothing about it adds up.
Maybe she was an immigrant and he resented Trump. Apparently ((wiki)) his father was a bank robber. He may have been bipolar, or mixed valium with alcohol too often. It all fits, or none of it does, depending more on how much I want it to fit than anything else.
DB Roy wrote:It's possible is all I'm saying. I have, in all my years, never seen anything like this presidency. Would that I never see it again. A president with his own fanatical, devoted cult ready to do anything he tells them. I've never seen anything remotely like this.
I agree. I don't know if you ever saw "Talk Radio". (Oliver Stone, Eric Bogosian, who also wrote the play.) We know there have been fringies out there, (ahem, Timothy McVeigh), but to have them get a candidate nominated by a major party indicates a scary undercurrent. I remember telling my classes that a long, deep recession produces craziness, but I thought we had gotten through it okay. But no.

Re: The Art of No Deal

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:55 am
by geo
DB Roy wrote: But what specifically did Trump do? He went after the other candidates' spouses and attacked Fiorina's looks. For instance, he accused Bush of being soft on immigration and then told him, "Maybe because your wife is brown." .
I believe what Trump actually said is that Jeb was soft on immigration because of his wife. He never used the word "brown" although it is entirely believable that he would say something like that.

But I think you're right, it may have changed the trajectory of the race if Bush had shown something more than he did. Perhaps not an actual physical assault. None if the candidates quite knew how to respond to Trump, whose own actions and speech advertised loud and clear that he was unfit for the office.

Re: The Art of No Deal

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:12 pm
by DB Roy
The RNC and GOP should have told Trump to step down and give a full-throated condemnation of his behavior but they didn't because they were SO desperate to win the White House that they were perfectly willing to ride his coattails. Trump knew it which is why he kept promising war in the streets if they bumped him off the platform. Trump is, behind it all, a gangster, a mob boss. And make no mistake--it's totally intentional. He admires that kind of thing. Only mob bosses threaten war if they don't get their way. Only mob bosses judge everyone around him by how much loyalty they show him. Only mob bosses take over operations and put family in charge of them. Only a mob boss pays hush money and performs shady transactions in cash. Only mob bosses send in henchmen to intimidate and threaten those whose loyalties they doubt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddTsofoVDJk

The tactics described in the clip totally validate the claims of Stormy Daniels when she said a total stranger threatened her life in a parking lot. Donnie revels in the idea of being a don. Don Donnie. Donnie-Don-Don.

Funny, he seems to have his way with male opponents but women score big damage points. Karen MacDougal, Stormy Daniels and now Omarosa Manigault-Newman. Omarosa is especially damaging because she's an insider. She knows exactly what is going on in the White House. While she hasn't told us anything we don't already know or suspect, she confirms it. Yes, Trump used the N-word on tape. Yes, Trump's marriage is loveless and in turmoil. Yes, his mental health is deteriorating. Her tapes, to give her credit, are excellently recorded. No fuzziness, no verbal lacuna going on. You can hear who is talking and exactly what they are saying. The one tape that does it for me is Trump feigning concern over Omarosa's firing. He sounds SO phony and disingenuous. Funny, he fired her three times from Apprentice to her face but he can't do it as president. In fact, he doesn't appear to have fired anybody face to face. He's Mr. Badass on Apprentice who actually wanted to trademark the phrase "You're fired" but is totally incapable of uttering those words without tv cameras, directors and scripts to help him along. That's just cowardice.

Bottom line: Omarosa is destroying him bit by bit and she isn't going to stop. She loves what she's doing. Like Stormy, she's at home in the spotlight every bit as much as Donnie is. The one area where Donnie isn't a mob boss is that he can't rub people out. If he could, Mueller, Rosenstein, Comey, Cohen, MacDougal, Daniels and Manigault-Newman at the very least would be dead. Actually, they'd be alive because they would be too scared to go against him. None of this would be happening. Just like Donnie loves to keep everybody in suspense, Omarosa is doing that to him. What other tapes does she have? One by one, little by little, they come out and prove the White House is full of liars. She's killing him. Soon, no one wants to deny anything because they are afraid Omarosa might be able to contradict them. So they have to distance themselves.

Remember when Trump said he would get the best people? Most of them are gone now--some have fled while others left with a "Fuck you" attitude. People once closest to him are now bitter enemies. Shows how stupid Trump is. You NEVER push those people are away because they know too much!! And when were they ever the BEST? Does Betsy DeVos strike you as the best? What about Ben Carson? What about Ivanka?

As for Omarosa, Trump created her. He wanted her, he got her. Why did he want her? Because she said such nice things about him. This is the level that Trump thinks at. This is the guy who thinks he's a master dealmaker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCcfUp-1tCI