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Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:40 pm
by Lawrence
Dear all,
I believe you are all very thoughtful and informed. What I cannot understand is why none of you strike at the core of the problem stated by Chris. "Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?" The political and mechanical system to establish our government in 1789 simply is incapable of providing the means for continuing the ideological beauty of the founding fathers. In 1789 America had a land mass of 13 colonies. It had a population of 1.5 million people. It took 4 months to travel from one end of our country to the other. The focus of our founding fathers was the tyranny caused by the religious concept of the "Divine Right of Kings" which established that only the pope could appoint a ruler of the people. And that he was therefore "God's Anointed." Read most any writing on Henry the Eighth and Sir Thomas More.
If you read "Democracy in America" by the French writer in 1836, DE Tocqueville, he prophesied that as soon as the electorate figured out how to get their hands in the treasury the American experiment would end. Well part of the criticism of Billary, is that they ran the white house like a motel six. You want an 15 minute audience with the president pay $100,000 for a night in the Lincoln Bedroom. And then $ 29 million for speaking fees. You surely can't be that naive.
In this day of the 21 Century, Money is the mother's milk of politics. And what Chris is lamenting is the result of this reality. It is an oxymoron to believe we can have the promises of a government designed by our founding fathers when we have not modified the systems of government that can affect those promises. We can't fix the problem that Chris if lamenting without fixing the political system that elects them. Love, Lawrence

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Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:34 am
by geo
Lawrence wrote:. . . part of the criticism of Billary, is that they ran the white house like a motel six. You want an 15 minute audience with the president pay $100,000 for a night in the Lincoln Bedroom. And then $ 29 million for speaking fees. You surely can't be that naive.
In this day of the 21 Century, Money is the mother's milk of politics. And what Chris is lamenting is the result of this reality. It is an oxymoron to believe we can have the promises of a government designed by our founding fathers when we have not modified the systems of government that can affect those promises. We can't fix the problem that Chris if lamenting without fixing the political system that elects them.'
The support we see for both Trump and Bernie Sanders seems to be fueled by strong sentiment against the oligarchy that our republic has become. Hillary represents a status quo that we can barely stomach. Our government is no longer beholden to the people, but to corporations and Wall Street. I think we may be seeing the beginnings of a revolution.

Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:26 pm
by Lawrence
OH GEO, I HOPE AT LEAST A CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. REVOLUTIONS TEND TO SIMPLY PUT SOMEONE OF LIKE ATTITUDE IN PLACE OF WHAT WE HAVE.

Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:33 am
by President Camacho
The whole west seems to be eating itself and slicing off portions of itself for others to consume as well. The average person is at a loss for what to think because the age old idea of community, borders, and cultural identity is being ridiculed, tossed out, and considered hate thought/ borderline criminal behavior. The situation may get out of control... the more 'control' is employed. Keep an eye out for escalations like what's happening in Idaho. As for candidates, I'd rather vote for a roach than royalty.

Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:04 am
by Robert Tulip
President Camacho wrote:the age old idea of community, borders, and cultural identity is being ridiculed, tossed out, and considered hate thought/ borderline criminal behavior.
Welcome back Mr Pres. Yes, your comment here illustrates the rather sad polarization infecting the modern world.

Wouldn't it be lovely to have a totally free and anarchic world with no borders, no property and no rule of law?

Regrettably such a world would rapidly collapse into conflict and poverty.

It is a shame that the young internetistas who are so in theoretical love with refugees espouse the utterly contradictory view that in addition to open borders, governments should increase welfare expenditure, oblivious to debt, deficit and the entire existence of fiscal reality.

Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:59 am
by President Camacho
Yes, it's what's making Sanders and Trump a reality but that's already been hit on. The two political parties are so out if touch with their base and can hardly control their own members. Americans see what Muslims are doing, are sure they're being lied to by the news, and are scared and ignorant (sometimes through no real fault of their own in my opinion). This whole globalization thing is forcing workers to compete with slaves, it's lining the pockets of the ultra wealthy, and communities are being gutted and destroyed. I applaud Britain. I hope they have the back bone to keep it going and not fumble. Would love for them to make an example. There's nothing wrong with protecting your home and your cultural identity. Every other culture is allowed to do it, so why not the west? Trump -that clown criminal - is the only one saying anything about it and I like that.

Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:33 am
by Lawrence
How wonderful we have picked up the real thread.
By what logic, law, value system or spiritual truth is available to us that justifies one person on this planet telling another person on this planet where he/she can live, work, or raise their family? (I would really like anyone to try to answer that question.)

Our boarder system exits, throughout the world, because of power and the way that power has been exercises. The power is the power of the oligarchy in power to keep others out of the space they control. We have a 250,000 year history of living in communities and what we are experiencing now is simply the culmination of the previous generations attempts to deal with the stress of living together. Remember, Dostoevsky's the Brothers Karamazov. When the medical doctor went to the monk in the first 100 pages, he wanted the monk to teach him how not to be irritated by the person in the room with him whose breathing, coughing, and simple presence was a bother to him. He had dedicated his life to the altruistic value of helping people,but he was failing in his personal relations. Folks=surprise, surprise=the world is failing in its personal relations!

I hate to be pedantic but I explained why in my little book, "A Cry From The Heart." None of you, except Chris, thought I was saying anything of value. Well maybe now, the tension is at the right pressure for thoughtful people to consider maybe I'm saying something useful. Enjoy, and Happy 4th of July. A lot of people have died for what they believed was true. I believe it is the responsibility of those of us who live, to expose the sham and reveal the truth. L

Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:29 pm
by President Camacho
You've excluded my unstated, personal position and one implied by Tulip when he mentioned property.

Borders ARE about people. Having no borders puts people into direct conflict and benefit those in power as effectively as a tyrant with closed borders.

People in the west who have built communities and given their life dollars to do so want returns for their own. Do you know what I mean by life dollars? They've fought and worked for a product they've achieved - whatever that end product may be. You have people who get to piggy back on that, you have politicians giving tax money away to corporations, people, other countries without even having the courtesy of asking them if it'd be ok. They move hundreds or thousands of refuges into towns that can't assimilate them and the town takes on a whole new culture. They sign trade agreements that send their jobs overseas. Construction workers, pool guys, landscapers, painters, and on are forced to compete with illegal immigrants who pay no taxes. People are paying to get sh*t on.

Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:13 pm
by Lawrence
My dearest Camacho,
We have been correspondents for many years to my pleasure, but you did not answer my question, "By what authority does one person tell another person where they can live, work, and raise their family on this planet." Your answer "PROPERTY" is simply the unstated simplistic surface acknowledgement of "I got mine, how you doin?"

Your last paragraph of how the current oligarchies are dealing with a planet of too few assets for too many people does not answer my question but only emphasizes my premise that power rules, not reason or logic. When too few have food and shelter and too many do not, does your thought provide the solution to how we share? I think not. Are you saying the haves have no duty to share with the have nots? Then say that and we will start another thread.

Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?

Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:25 pm
by LanDroid
Lawrence wrote: By what authority does one person tell another person where they can live, work, and raise their family on this planet.
All countries have laws, regulations, and in some cases constitutions that control immigration and naturalization.