BookTalk.org

Robert Tulip wrote:

Gnostic Bishop wrote:one does not

Just taking this quote out of context to illustrate that even in context it lacks enough supporting words to make any sense. I assume it means "if one does not consider it legitimate or healthy to try to separate out the bad stuff and keep the good stuff", but all the extra quoted text makes it confusing.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:

Harry Marks wrote:But I don't expect everyone to consider it legitimate or healthy to try to separate out the bad stuff and keep the good stuff.

If one does not, then one can never decide if the ideology is good or evil.

Harry Marks wrote:

Gnostic Bishop wrote:

Harry Marks wrote:But I don't expect everyone to consider it legitimate or healthy to try to separate out the bad stuff and keep the good stuff.

If one does not, then one can never decide if the ideology is good or evil.

It's not the clearest, but since I do this myself I didn't have too much trouble deciphering. A comment whose reference is otherwise unclear is probably commenting on the last sentence of the quoted material.

If people are going to insist that thought systems have to be accepted or rejected in one piece, not sorted through for gems, then they are going to find that lots of people reject their system. And often, the more those people think for themselves, the more likely that they judge the system faulty. If I were of a mind to argue people need to keep the original system intact, I would give thought to who I am fencing in and who I am fencing out.

Harry Marks wrote:If people are going to insist that thought systems have to be accepted or rejected in one piece, not sorted through for gems, then they are going to find that lots of people reject their system.

Jesus Christ wrote:Matthew 13:24-30 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

Gnostic Bishop wrote: I do hear you on not throwing out babies with the bathwater, as an esoteric ecumenist, I shamelessly cherry pick from any ideology if the rule or law is worthy.

Robert Tulip wrote:

Harry Marks wrote:If people are going to insist that thought systems have to be accepted or rejected in one piece, not sorted through for gems, then they are going to find that lots of people reject their system.

Jesus Christ explains this point very clearly.

Jesus Christ wrote:Matthew 13:24-30 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

The wheat is the lost Gnostic secret cosmic wisdom, while the tares are the false literal teachings of the church. They grow together until the end of the age, when they will both be fully ripe and it will become possible to separate them from each other, retaining the wheat and discarding the tares.

Harry Marks wrote:

Gnostic Bishop wrote: I do hear you on not throwing out babies with the bathwater, as an esoteric ecumenist, I shamelessly cherry pick from any ideology if the rule or law is worthy.

Cherry-picking is only a problem if it is done with evidence, to give a partial picture of the facts. With values and wisdom, cherry-picking should be practiced regularly! Individuals and traditions, especially ancient traditions, have a partial picture of matters, and they should have the "worthy" parts (as you aptly put it) lifted up, not as evidence that the source is wonderful, but as insight to be pondered.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:

Harry Marks wrote: Cherry-picking is only a problem if it is done with evidence, to give a partial picture of the facts.

I agree but your word "evidence" threw me off a bit.
Logic and reason is what I use to choose what I think is the best rules and laws.

Harry Marks wrote:

Gnostic Bishop wrote:

Harry Marks wrote: Cherry-picking is only a problem if it is done with evidence, to give a partial picture of the facts.

I agree but your word "evidence" threw me off a bit.
Logic and reason is what I use to choose what I think is the best rules and laws.

Actually I had in mind something even further afield. There are lots of complaints about "cherry-picking" evidence that, say, Christianity is a force for good in the world, or Christianity is a force for evil in the world, or complexity has no path to arise via evolution because partial complexity doesn't function. Cherry-picking has gotten a bad name. But in the kind of use you are making of it, I simply wanted to underline that I think it is entirely appropriate.