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Have you read the whole Bible?
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Author:  Penelope [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

I am a trifle gobsmacked at that last post. It is interesting that since I was a child in the Church of England, I have hated the hymn, Fight the good Fight with all thy might. I believe that if we think life is going to be a fight, then it will be.

I don’t think certainty is a very good thing, because with certainty comes the inquisition. This seems to be where you are going. I like that God is a mystery and I don’t want it all categorised and pigeon holed.

I don’t think we can, as ordinary people, win hearts and souls. Only God can do that. We can demonstrate the way. Words don’t work because they become ‘jargon ‘ and are despised.

I believe that we can win people by kindness. I’ll give you an instance; I found it hard to feel any kindness, or indeed pray for some greedy, selfish and very, very powerful people, heads of state in this world today. But one lady on the internet said to me, ‘Think of them surrounded by darkness, as they are, poor souls. Pray for a glimmer of light to reach them. Don’t let them steal your joy. Joy comes from within of course, not the same as happiness. I would be happy if there were no hungry children in the world, but my joy comes from within me.

Love Pen. Xxx

Author:  Gnostic Bishop [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

Penelope wrote:
I am a trifle gobsmacked at that last post. It is interesting that since I was a child in the Church of England, I have hated the hymn, Fight the good Fight with all thy might. I believe that if we think life is going to be a fight, then it will be.

I don’t think certainty is a very good thing, because with certainty comes the inquisition. This seems to be where you are going. I like that God is a mystery and I don’t want it all categorised and pigeon holed.

I don’t think we can, as ordinary people, win hearts and souls. Only God can do that. We can demonstrate the way. Words don’t work because they become ‘jargon ‘ and are despised.

I believe that we can win people by kindness. I’ll give you an instance; I found it hard to feel any kindness, or indeed pray for some greedy, selfish and very, very powerful people, heads of state in this world today. But one lady on the internet said to me, ‘Think of them surrounded by darkness, as they are, poor souls. Pray for a glimmer of light to reach them. Don’t let them steal your joy. Joy comes from within of course, not the same as happiness. I would be happy if there were no hungry children in the world, but my joy comes from within me.

Love Pen. Xxx


For evil to grow, all good people need do is not fight the good verbal fight against evil people.

If you live by the Golden Rule, then you should not be able to abide injustice to those who are discriminated against without a just cause, like women and gays whom the religions target.

Regards
DL

Author:  Penelope [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

I don’t know where you live, but gay people are quite accepted here. Women’s lib is fighting for equal pay.

In recent history the man went out to work and the woman stayed home to look after the children and home. This has changed largely for financial reasons I think, but I really don’t think it’s anything to fight or go to war about. I loved being at home and caring for my children so I don’t understand those who don’t want to do it.

Women are equal but different in my opinion.

Author:  Gnostic Bishop [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

Penelope wrote:
I don’t know where you live, but gay people are quite accepted here. Women’s lib is fighting for equal pay.

In recent history the man went out to work and the woman stayed home to look after the children and home. This has changed largely for financial reasons I think, but I really don’t think it’s anything to fight or go to war about. I loved being at home and caring for my children so I don’t understand those who don’t want to do it.

Women are equal but different in my opinion.


I was talking a war of words.

If you have female grand children and you do not take on the cause for equality and against misogyny and homophobia, then all you are doing is passing your battle to them.

Regards
DL

Author:  Penelope [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

I suppose it depends on where you live and whom you encounter. I can’t say I’ve seen discrimination against gay people during my adult life.

The feminist movement are slogging away for equality but it’s a long battle.

I prefer to fight for animal rights and take a stand against factory farming and barbaric practices towards animals.

Also work against the pollution of our planet with single use plastic.

However, I don’t advocate violence, and I teach my children and grandchildren thus. No good ever comes from acts of violence. It is always the innocent who suffer.

Author:  Gnostic Bishop [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

Penelope wrote:
I suppose it depends on where you live and whom you encounter. I can’t say I’ve seen discrimination against gay people during my adult life.

The feminist movement are slogging away for equality but it’s a long battle.

I prefer to fight for animal rights and take a stand against factory farming and barbaric practices towards animals.

Also work against the pollution of our planet with single use plastic.

However, I don’t advocate violence, and I teach my children and grandchildren thus. No good ever comes from acts of violence. It is always the innocent who suffer.


Good to hear you are active.

I also dislike violence but am not a pacifist as I think reciprocity is fair play and that turning the other cheek just rewards evil.

If you can, watch the documentary Cowspiracy and see how, if we are to improve the environment, cows have to go.

Keep on keeping on buddy.

Regards
DL

Author:  Litwitlou [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

What I dislike are blanket statements, "No good ever comes from acts of violence." We should have waited for the Nazis to do what? Kill all the Jews? Perhaps you should discuss that philosophy with the Carthaginians... Oh, wait...

Author:  Gnostic Bishop [ Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

Litwitlou wrote:
What I dislike are blanket statements, "No good ever comes from acts of violence." We should have waited for the Nazis to do what? Kill all the Jews? Perhaps you should discuss that philosophy with the Carthaginians... Oh, wait...


I hear you.

There is a time for hate and retaliation.

Regards
DL

Author:  Harry Marks [ Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

Penelope wrote:
I believe that if we think life is going to be a fight, then it will be.
Yes, I see the point.

Penelope wrote:
I don’t think we can, as ordinary people, win hearts and souls. Only God can do that. We can demonstrate the way. Words don’t work because they become ‘jargon ‘ and are despised.
I believe that we can win people by kindness.
And if we don't win someone, at least we will have been kind.

Penelope wrote:
Pray for a glimmer of light to reach them. Don’t let them steal your joy.
Tall order, but I am willing to give it a try.

A pleasure to read these views. Thanks!

Author:  Harry Marks [ Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
There is only one way of winning the heart and soul of another person; by force of ideas.
I find quite the opposite - that trying to win someone by ideas is almost always futile, while helping them realize what common purpose you are serving has some chance of getting them to listen.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
The goal of debate and discussion, a war of words, is to find truths that can be agreed upon.

There is truth in that, but I find it is usually the people on the sidelines who actually are influenced by the arguments. Rarely do I see someone I have been arguing with admit to being influenced by my arguments, and for that matter rarely do I admit to being influenced by those who have been arguing with me.

Author:  Gnostic Bishop [ Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

Harry Marks wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
There is only one way of winning the heart and soul of another person; by force of ideas.
I find quite the opposite - that trying to win someone by ideas is almost always futile, while helping them realize what common purpose you are serving has some chance of getting them to listen.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
The goal of debate and discussion, a war of words, is to find truths that can be agreed upon.

There is truth in that, but I find it is usually the people on the sidelines who actually are influenced by the arguments. Rarely do I see someone I have been arguing with admit to being influenced by my arguments, and for that matter rarely do I admit to being influenced by those who have been arguing with me.


I hear you but I argue to the best of my ability to lose, and love being shown something new and have my mind changed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTN9Nx8 ... e=youtu.be

Regards
DL

Author:  Penelope [ Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

Lit wit Lou wrote:
What I dislike are blanket statements, "No good ever comes from acts of violence." We should have waited for the Nazis to do what? Kill all the Jews? Perhaps you should discuss that philosophy with the Carthaginians... Oh, wait...


We intervened! I am sorry I made a blanket statement. If you have a thuggish society, then you must have thuggish policemen I suppose. The local village bobby would be ineffectual. I see that.

But in war, there is always a subtext. It is not always for altruistic reasons. They sacrificed so many young men in WWI. For what?

I don’t know what I feel like, but I know I have dissuaded my children to succumb to violence and a jingoistic, gung ho attitude.....and I’m glad. History has shown that thousands of our young men were just treated as canon fodder.

Author:  corbanford [ Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

I have, and it took me 7 months. I don't know, it's definitely valuable but that's really all in the eye of the beholder. What do you think about it personally? If it means a lot to someone, then it'll almost single handedly change their life. If not, then it won't mean anything to them, just an old fashioned outdated book that is a mash up of old stories and proverbs. It all depends, and I'm not entirely sure where I stand in all of it myself to be completely honest.

Author:  Harry Marks [ Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

corbanford wrote:
it's definitely valuable but that's really all in the eye of the beholder. What do you think about it personally? If it means a lot to someone, then it'll almost single handedly change their life. If not, then it won't mean anything to them, just an old fashioned outdated book that is a mash up of old stories and proverbs.

Welcome, corbanford. I hope you find stimulating and entertaining material here to comment on.

These are good observations, IMHO. There is a whole set of evangelical "hermeneutics" (meaning systems for guidance on how to interpret the Bible or other complex text) aimed at seeing how the pieces fit together into a life-changing vision. I have a lot of respect for those, but I think N.T. Wright is probably the pinnacle of the genre.

I am not too invested in those hermeneutics, given that I chose a progressive approach to scripture a long, long time ago. So for me there is a lot of mash-up intermingled with the good stuff. Still, the good stuff is so good that I do appreciate reading the Good Book.

corbanford wrote:
It all depends, and I'm not entirely sure where I stand in all of it myself to be completely honest.

Sounds to me like you are being honest. I hope that isn't as catty as it sounds.

Author:  dlsmith2959 [ Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Have you read the whole Bible?

I have actually read the whole bible through several times. I have not kept track and have not done so in nearly two decades, but I did about six times when I was in my early twenties. I found my understanding of Christianity shifted somewhat when I read the whole bible, and has a bit over the years, and I am a born again Christian.
The old testament has some really interesting things recorded. Probably one of the stranger thing that is recorded in the last chapter of 1st Kings. The prophet Micaiah records God actually soliciting advice in his throne room, and different spirits giving opinions which God rejected, and then one coming forward a providing a suggestion that God accepted. God apparently at times asks for opinions.
Some of it is very boring, when genealogies go on for 8 chapters in Chronicles.
It records the earth as being round long before the birth of Christ in Isa. 40:22. https://creation.com/isaiah-40-22-circle-sphere is an interesting on line article discussing this passage.
Homosexuality is clearing shown as being wrong according to God, going back even to Gen 9 after the flood when God commanded Noah’s family and descendants to be fruitful and multiply.
I think when one reads the entirety of the bible, they realize that the general image of Jesus always being loving and forgiving is not completely accurate. In Revelation he will come back as a conquering King and destroy his enemies, and even in the new testament, judgement was sometimes swift and severe, such as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira who died immediately upon lying to the Apostles in Acts 5, and in Acts 13 when Paul blinds the sorcerer Bar-Jesus.

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