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Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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I heard an interview once with Scott Thurman, the guy who made the documentary film, The Revisionaries. While shooting the film, Thurman had a chance to get to know Don Mcleroy, the Texas Creationist trying to change science textbooks to include Intelligent Design (as an "alternative" to evolution). Thurman expected to really dislike McLeroy for being so anti-science. But after spending some time with him, Thurman came to really like man. Thurman said he was struck by McLeroy’s sincerity and his genuine efforts to understand evolution. Ultimately, evolution remains an unintuitive and foreign concept for McLeroy. He just doesn't get it.

Clearly, a materialistic—"purposeless"—world isn’t as obvious to some people as it is to others. In this blog, Marcelo Gleiser wonders why evolution is such a stumbling block for some people. And why an increasingly scientific understanding of our universe leaves little room for belief in a personal god who answers only some people’s prayers.
Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

The evidence is clear, as in a February 2009 Gallup Poll, taken on the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin's birthday, that reported only 39 percent of Americans say they "believe in the theory of evolution," while a quarter say they do not believe in the theory, and another 36 percent don't have an opinion either way.

The same poll correlated belief in evolution with educational level: 21 percent of people with a high school education or less believed in evolution. That number rose to 41 percent for people with some college attendance, 53 percent for college graduates, and 74 percent for people with a postgraduate education.

Clearly, the level of education has an impact on how people feel about evolution.

Another variable investigated by the same poll was how belief in evolution correlates with church attendance. Of those who believe in evolution, 24 percent go to church weekly, 30 percent go nearly weekly/monthly, and 55 percent seldom or never go.

Not surprisingly, and rather unfortunately, religious belief interferes with people's understanding of what the theory of evolution says.

The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. It's in the fossil record, carefully dated using radioactivity, the release of particles from radioactive isotopic decay, which works like a very precise clock. Rocks from volcanic eruptions (igneous rocks) buried near a fossil carry certain amounts of radioactive material, unstable atomic nuclei that emit different kinds of radiation, like tiny bullets. The most common is Uranium-235, which decays into Lead-207. Analyzing the ratio of Uranium-235 to Lead-207 in a sample, and knowing how frequently Uranium-235 emits particles (its half-life is 704 million years, the amount half a sample decays into Lead), scientists can get a very accurate measure of the age of a fossil.

But evidence for evolution is also much more palpable, for example in the risks of overprescribing antibiotics: the more we (and farm animals) take antibiotics, the higher the chance that a microbe will mutate into one resistant to the drug. This is in-your-face evolution, species mutating at the genetic level and adapting to a new environment (in this case, an environment contaminated with antibiotics). The proof of this can be easily achieved in the laboratory (see link above), by comparing original strands of bacteria with those subjected to different doses of antibiotics. It's simple and conclusive, since the changes in the genetic code of the resistant mutant can be identified and studied.

However, there are creationist scientists who claim that mutation is not the true mechanism of resistance. Instead, they claim that bacteria already had those genes in some sort of dormant state, which were then activated by their exposure to antibiotics. For example, Dr. Georgia Purdom argues that this inbuilt mechanism is "a testimony to the wonderful design God gave bacteria, master adapters and survivors in a sin-cursed world." I couldn't identify [in her paper] any data to back her hypothesis that bacterial resistance to antibiotics comes [exclusively] from horizontal gene swap and not mutation. [Clearly, horizontal gene transfer is a primary reason for bacterial antibiotic resistance. It's just not the only one, as Dr. Purdom argues.]

Does evolution really need to be such a stumbling block for so many? Is it really that bad that we descended from monkeys? [Formally, we didn't "descend from monkeys" but shared a common ancestor with monkeys in the past. In fact, all common living species shared a single common ancestor, known as LUCA, for Last Universal Common Ancestor. LUCA was probably a single-celled organism.] Doesn't that make us even more amazing, primates that can write poetry and design scientific experiments? Behind this strong resistance to evolution there is a deep dislike for a scientific understanding of how nature works. The problem seems to be related to the age-old God-of-the-Gaps agenda, that the more we understand of the world the less room there is for a creator God. This is bad theology, as it links belief to the development of science.

Even though I'm not a believer, I wonder why those who are need to equate God with the hard work of designing people, bacteria, dinosaurs, or some 900,000 known species of insects. (Probably there are more than 10 million in total.) Surely there are better ways to find God or other paths toward spiritual meaning in life?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2012/01/1 ... -evolution
Last edited by geo on Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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It's just a theory
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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Does evolution really need to be such a stumbling block for so many? Is it really that bad that we descended from monkeys? [Formally, we didn't "descend from monkeys" but shared a common ancestor with monkeys in the past.
Quote added so that the proper person can flip shit over my response.

Here again we’ve got a misconception about our descent from monkeys.

We’ve heard it often enough, but I believe this was a saying instituted in an attempt to sooth agitated creationists. “We did not descend from monkeys.”

On the one hand it is true. We did not descend from any extant species of monkey or ape. But this has been extended to mean we did not descend from any monkey or ape, but instead co-evolved with them into a polyphyletic group, but it isn’t true.

The truth of the matter is that evolution proceeds through monophyletic hierarchy. Things that look alike share common ancestry, and the more alike they are, the more recent was their last common ancestor. Saying we didn’t evolve from monkeys asks us to believe that monkeys and apes and humans all developed exactly the same diagnostic traits independently through convergent evolution. But that isn’t how evolution works.

Saying we did not descend from monkeys is not precise enough and it perpetuates a misunderstanding about not only our own heritage, but evolution in general.

Humans are great apes. But apes arose from a clade that was all monkey. So, by definition apes are a kind of monkey, and we are a kind of ape, which makes us a kind of monkey. There is no way to escape our heritage and we can’t get out of being monkeys any more than we can get out of being stegacephalian cordates.

From one of my earlier posts on this subject, with a couple clade corrections:
Johnson1010:
Inside of primates is a group called simian, or similiformes, this is the clade that contains all apes, and monkeys, and where the pro-simians, or lemurs, tarsiers, and lorisolds drop off of our common ancestry. Inside similiformes, which means human-like, there are two clades with monkeys: the catarrhines, and platyrhines.

Both are already monkeys, so their common ancestor before the differences which cause the gap between catarrhines (old world monkeys, apes, humans) and platyrhines (new world monkeys) was already a monkey.

You can’t develop two different strains of monkeys with identical diagnostic traits from something that was not already itself a kind of monkey. And because the old world monkeys are catarrhines, and apes are a branch of catarrhines, and we are a branch of the great apes, we are also catarrhines… and that means we are monkeys.


But of course to describe us as monkeys does not really explain our most prominent features. That is an error equivalent to calling humans bilateria, or that a chicken is a therapod. It is true… but it is hardly the most accurate descriptive label that we can be given, as it confuses us with a large percentage of life on the planet. The most didactic word is Homo Sapiens, but that doesn’t change the fact that we are indeed a kind of monkey. And there’s no way to deny it.
To rephrase, if I say to you “feline” you probably think of something like Garfield. But I could also be talking about a mountain lion. It isn’t enough to say feline when you are trying to talk about specific species, and it isn’t really enough to say monkey when you are talking about humans, gorillas, or even the new world and old world monkeys.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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johnson1010 wrote:Here again we’ve got a misconception about our descent from monkeys.

We’ve heard it often enough, but I believe this was a saying instituted in an attempt to sooth agitated creationists. “We did not descend from monkeys.”

On the one hand it is true. We did not descend from any extant species of monkey or ape. But this has been extended to mean we did not descend from any monkey or ape, but instead co-evolved with them into a polyphyletic group, but it isn’t true.

The truth of the matter is that evolution proceeds through monophyletic hierarchy. Things that look alike share common ancestry, and the more alike they are, the more recent was their last common ancestor. Saying we didn’t evolve from monkeys asks us to believe that monkeys and apes and humans all developed exactly the same diagnostic traits independently through convergent evolution. But that isn’t how evolution works.

Saying we did not descend from monkeys is not precise enough and it perpetuates a misunderstanding about not only our own heritage, but evolution in general.

Humans are great apes. But apes arose from a clade that was all monkey. So, by definition apes are a kind of monkey, and we are a kind of ape, which makes us a kind of monkey. There is no way to escape our heritage and we can’t get out of being monkeys any more than we can get out of being stegacephalian cordates.

From one of my earlier posts on this subject, with a couple clade corrections:
Johnson1010:
Inside of primates is a group called simian, or similiformes, this is the clade that contains all apes, and monkeys, and where the pro-simians, or lemurs, tarsiers, and lorisolds drop off of our common ancestry. Inside similiformes, which means human-like, there are two clades with monkeys: the catarrhines, and platyrhines.

Both are already monkeys, so their common ancestor before the differences which cause the gap between catarrhines (old world monkeys, apes, humans) and platyrhines (new world monkeys) was already a monkey.

You can’t develop two different strains of monkeys with identical diagnostic traits from something that was not already itself a kind of monkey. And because the old world monkeys are catarrhines, and apes are a branch of catarrhines, and we are a branch of the great apes, we are also catarrhines… and that means we are monkeys.


But of course to describe us as monkeys does not really explain our most prominent features. That is an error equivalent to calling humans bilateria, or that a chicken is a therapod. It is true… but it is hardly the most accurate descriptive label that we can be given, as it confuses us with a large percentage of life on the planet. The most didactic word is Homo Sapiens, but that doesn’t change the fact that we are indeed a kind of monkey. And there’s no way to deny it.
To rephrase, if I say to you “feline” you probably think of something like Garfield. But I could also be talking about a mountain lion. It isn’t enough to say feline when you are trying to talk about specific species, and it isn’t really enough to say monkey when you are talking about humans, gorillas, or even the new world and old world monkeys.
Are you talking to me?

If you are, then this proves you've never read a word of what I've posted about this topic here on Booktalk.
It wouldn't surprise me because certain people love to hear themselves talk.
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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Yeah, johnson has reading comprehension issues. You should freak out a little...


He was responding to this part in the original article:

"Does evolution really need to be such a stumbling block for so many? Is it really that bad that we descended from monkeys? [Formally, we didn't "descend from monkeys" but shared a common ancestor with monkeys in the past."
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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Interbane wrote:Yeah, johnson has reading comprehension issues. You should freak out a little...


He was responding to this part in the original article:

"Does evolution really need to be such a stumbling block for so many? Is it really that bad that we descended from monkeys? [Formally, we didn't "descend from monkeys" but shared a common ancestor with monkeys in the past."
You're one to talk.

You're notorious for skipping over sources people ask you to consider, as well as putting words in their mouth.

You've done this many times.

Go back to your mechanical algorithmic world.
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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Humans are great apes. But apes arose from a clade that was all monkey. So, by definition apes are a kind of monkey, and we are a kind of ape, which makes us a kind of monkey. There is no way to escape our heritage and we can’t get out of being monkeys any more than we can get out of being stegacephalian cordates.
And let's not forget that it takes an entire monkey village to keep other monkey's baby monkeys from getting pregnant.

You can swing by my tree and pick up some free birth control banana peels any ol' day of the week!
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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ant wrote:
Humans are great apes. But apes arose from a clade that was all monkey. So, by definition apes are a kind of monkey, and we are a kind of ape, which makes us a kind of monkey. There is no way to escape our heritage and we can’t get out of being monkeys any more than we can get out of being stegacephalian cordates.
And let's not forget that it takes an entire monkey village to keep other monkey's baby monkeys from getting pregnant.

You can swing by my tree and pick up some free birth control banana peels any ol' day of the week!
Do you disagree with anything in Johnson's post?
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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Interbane's right, that was a response to the article, which i largly agree with.
It was a kinda lengthy reply, and i think you posted while i was still writing mine, so it got dropped after yours.


Why do you swell up like a toad every time you talk with people on this site, Ant?

Just look at the inexplicably hostile garbage you dropped on this thread. Really, man... why?
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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ant wrote:It's just a theory
Trolling like that should be a banning offence, or at least suspension, as a poster called "ant" just discovered at CosmoQuestwhich has stricter moderating standards than Booktalk.

I suppose talking creationist gibberish as ant does here makes for entertainment and debate of a sort though, even if it spreads disinformation and fundamentalist propaganda.
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