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Gillikin

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:39 pm
by Ophelia
I have now reached the part when Elphaba goes to university, and the character of Boq is introduced, and I'm really enjoying this
(I think I have a soft spot for novels which take place in posh boarding schools).

So you were right, Constance, things do get interesting at this stage.

Out of curiosity, I had a look at what readers wrote about the book on a few websites. It varies, but on one website it seemed that everybody was complaining about how boring the book was and what rubbish it was!

So I understand why it took some 10 or 15 years and a musical for the novel to become a bestseller.
After all it's a lot to expect from most readers to go through such a long and dry first part.

There are a lot of lines I like, for example:

"There was no response from Elphaba. Galinda, usually pleased that she knew the correct way to steer every conversation into a paean to herself, was flummoxed." (p 103)

"Ah, that's the question", Elphaba said, "but I've always learnt that the first thing to do is deny the question's validity."

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:49 am
by Constance963
I found the university section very interesting as well Ophelia. The courses of study that the students choose is a great way of foreshadowing the future that we are probably all familiar with from the Wizard of Oz. I'll have to skim over this section and refresh my memory a little bit on this section. It's been a few months now since I have read it and my more recent books are crowding it out. :D

Week 1 Discussion Question 1

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:20 pm
by tlpounds
Hello BookTalk!

Yesterday, my temporary reading group began our discussion of the first 80 pages of Wicked. I came up with various discussion questions from what we read this past week, and I thought I would toss them around on this thread to see if any of them might elicit some responses for you guys. I certainly value all insight from discourse and would love to extend the exchange of thought beyond my immediate group. Anyway, here you are:

Wicked uses familiar characters to tell a new story. Yet, just in the short time that we are re-introduced to the characters (during the Prologue, that is) do they seem the same or different to you from how you remember them (from your childhood exposure to them in The Wizard of Oz, of course)? For example, the novel opens with a scene in which the Witch overhears Dorothy, the Lion, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Man gossiping about her. The book goes on to describe Dorothy as "not a dainty thing, but a good-size farm girl dressed in blue and white checks and a pinafore. In her lap, a vile little dog cowered and whined."

Now, I don't know about you, but I certainly don't recall Dorothy as a "good-size" farm girl, but the dog...yep. It was a bashful, ugly little thing. Did you guys notice anything different about them?

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:52 am
by Constance963
Interesting question tlpounds. I think my initial reaction was that the characters seemed different it the context that you are watching them from the witch's perspective. In her point of view, Dorothy's got her shoes and she is thoroughly ticked off :D , so this may alter her perception of Dorothy in that she "sees" a big ugly pain-in-the-neck instead of the nice sweet farm girl everyone else sees.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:25 am
by Ophelia
This is the sort of debate I can't join on grounds of being culturally-challenged. :doze:

WK1 DQ#2

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:58 pm
by tlpounds
Constance, please call me Tammy. Oh! And I'm sorry, Ophelia! (We, in my reading group, all group up in the States and have watched The Wizard of Oz at some point in our childhoods! I didn't think to format my question for a cross-cultural audience. Sorry!)
The majority of us focused on the difference of how we remembered Dorothy, but one of my group members fervently defended Toto. Of all the characters, she thought how the witch interpreted the dog was so different from how she remembered it! (LOL! Dog lover...) Anyway, she wrote, "I would have to say that I believe the opposite for Toto. In the movie he was a brave dog even though he was little....he ran up and barked right at the witch! And he wasn't afraid of the tornado. AT least that is what I remember. And I thought he was really cute! =)"

Here is another question we discussed:

How did you feel about Melena's description of her pregnancy as her being a "hostage to herself. Or to the baby?" That she was only a "host for the parasite?" Twisted, perhaps? Selfish? Or reasonable? Pitiful? (For, she did go on to ask rhetorically, "Where's my self, anyway? Where'd I leave that tired old thing?")

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:11 pm
by tlpounds
Duh! I forgot to post the response I gave to the question. Please find it below:

I rarely hear women talk of their pregnancy as a hostage situation. Perhaps this is because people these days are waiting longer to have children so that, when they do come along, they've been planned and wanted. I wonder, then, if Frex and Melena planned Elphaba's conception, or if she was "by chance." If she wasn't planned, then like other unplanned/unwanted pregnancies, a woman could feel violated by something growing in her that was uninvited.

Or, maybe they did want the pregnancy, but since Elphaba was such an unnatural creature, the pregnancy was harder on Melena's body than if she were a normal child. I mean, perhaps Elphaba's growth taxed her mother's body more than a normal pregnancy would

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:51 pm
by Ophelia
Tammy, I'm glad you are telling us about the discussion you are having with your group, this is making things very interesting.

Please don't worry about me feeling culturally challenged, I was just laughing, I know that Wicked is referring to "The Wizard of Oz", perhaps one day I'll check the film or the book... it's just funny when you come accross something other people read as children.


Tammy and Constance,

I think we may need to create new threads for different questions about Wicked, what do you think? Otherwise we may end up with one very long crammed thread.

Tammy, you may be the one to bring in new questions at this stage, so perhaps just think of starting a new thread as you do so.

All this is very interesting to me because as I read I keep thinking that for the life of me I wouldn't know what questions to ask about this book...
:)

Starting New Threads

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:09 pm
by tlpounds
Ophelia,

I don't mind if you'd prefer I start a new thread for the various discussion questions my group has discussed for Wicked. I am not sure how I would do this, though. Do you mean, instead of choosing "Post a Reply," would I press the link for "New Topic?" But, wouldn't that make several threads for the Wicked book under the "Additional Fiction Book Discussions" forum, rather than under the already established thread for Wicked? Is that what you want?

Just give me more detailed instructions on how you want me to post the questions in the future, and I'll do it. Thanks.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:14 pm
by Ophelia
Tammy wrote:
Ophelia,

I don't mind if you'd prefer I start a new thread for the various discussion questions my group has discussed for Wicked. I am not sure how I would do this, though. Do you mean, instead of choosing "Post a Reply," would I press the link for "New Topic?" But, wouldn't that make several threads for the Wicked book under the "Additional Fiction Book Discussions" forum, rather than under the already established thread for Wicked? Is that what you want?
Yes.
I'm going to give an example of what I was thinking of by answering your questions in different threads.
When Constance joins us she can tell us what she thinks.

There's no perfect solution here, and you have put your finger on the difficulty: this is a forum for additional fiction book discussion, but so far they haven't been very big.

I'm also thinking in terms of people possibly joining this discussion a little later: if there is only one thread it will be more difficult to add their voice to a particular sub topic (I'm hoping that people will join us, at any rate I can see that many prople are reading these threads).