Robert Tulip wrote:
Sagan reminds me of David Hume’s argument more than 200 years ago that belief in miracles is more likely to reflect wishful thinking than supernatural intervention. Rather than being patronising about such belief, it is actually a good thing to ask what the emotional comfort is that led to it.
My other bugbear regarding patronising attitudes by skeptics is astrology. I do not personally believe in astrology in any unscientific way, but I constantly see skeptics parade their ignorance of the topic, often with a pompous arrogance that is little better than bullying.
With regard to the first quote; I do think that very many of us are prone to superstition......It is very seductive and I personally need to guard against it all the time. I was brought up to abhore superstition in fact.....in that if you prayed in faith believing then God would be insulted, as it were, if you did all kinds of magic spells to help your prayer along.....and if you prayed for something in particular, then that was like burying a seed in faith....and the seed wouldn't grow if you keep digging it up to see if it is sprouting. Now, whilst this is a very simplistic attitude, I do think it is a very healthy one. Of course, Fraser, in 'The Golden Bough' explains our inclination towards magic and superstition as being caused through our sense of helplessness, and if we can become a powerful witch or magician, we have some control over the elements and turbulance of life's circumstances. Apparently, this is why the Harry Potter books are so popular with young people, how wonderful to have magic powers and some control over our fate.
As to the subject of astrology, well it is shamed by the daily horoscope thingy in various publications which make it look ludicrous from the first pitch. But when science enters the field, it does becomes extraordinary. Robert, I don't know whether it was you or Dan Brown in The Da Vinci Code who pointed out that if you trace the orbit of the planet Venus, you get a perfect pentacle. Also the orbits of other planets produce perfect geometric shapes. Well Fibonacci mathematics uncovers many similar 'patterns' in the natural world. So I suppose it is natural for us to look for patterns in our behaviour, and daily lives.
As to your decision to believe that there is no consciousness after death of the body, since we cannot prove it otherwise, except to ourselves, it depends how important you feel it is. It doesn't matter if you are content to live your life as though there is no tomorrow, so to speak, but I am not willing to let go of the hope that is in me. Sure enough there are plenty of charlatans but the real convincing evidence comes from our own personal experiences, not from what somebody else tells us. However, I will say that the existence or not of alien life forms, or ghosts, or fairies.....or miracles.....pales into insignificance as far as I am concerned, when compared to the importance to the human psyche of ascertaining that we are infinite beings.
PS - I am very pleased that you are being involved in this debate.
tbarron wrote:
to see how well-meaning, honorable scientists of impeccable integrity can be snookered into buying the most outrageous sleight of hand. It's not that they were not competent as scientists, it's just that they were not trained to catch charlatans and usually the most economical explanation of apparently supernatural events is someone pulling off a con game.
I agree that we can very easily be fooled. One really only needs to look at the likes of Derren Brown - a conjurer who, I believe is an expert practitioner of NLP - neuro-linguistic programming.........and other current magicians. I can't imagine how their tricks work and, in fact, I can't understand how NLP works to such a stunning degree......The things they perform seem impossible and it is only because Derren Brown keeps assuring us that what he is showing us is a trick, that we are not totally in awe of him.
I still say, that we look for patterns because there are patterns. Nature itself is not wasteful, everything recycles naturally and that is just one of the reasons that I am convinced that the learning and wisdom which we accumulate in this life cycle does not go to waste......