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Chapter 13: Obsessed with reality

Please use this thread for discussing Chapter 13: Obsessed with reality.

I do feel as though I want to take issue with his looooong list of pseudoscience and superstition.........2nd Paragraph.

But there again, it is only a list and is Sagan's own perception of bogus.

I think I have seen enough mediums and healers (my Mum used to have them to tea when they were appearing at her Spiritualist church), to realise that some are deliberately misleading, some are well-meaning and convinced of their own gift of clairvoyance or whatever, and some can convey such a sense of peace and stillness that there is no doubt that they can heal psychosomatic disorders, as Sagan seems to agree in this chapter, (my page 218, paragraph beginning 'As a typical example'). The point being that a very large proportion of illness in this day and age is psychosomatic, more than in history because of the pace of living and the different modern circumstances. It is still healing, one person to another. Asthma and eczema, both being nervous complaints with physical manifestation.

I myself have learned dowsing. I use a pendulum. I don't know how it works, I don't think it's magic, but it works on some level.

Anyway, whilst I have appreciated this chapter and it is good to be reminded to be skeptical and wary, it seems a shame to be completely cynical and miss out on a lot of natural healing techniques.

Sagan has warned us that we might be hallucinating, or imagining things, or it might be wishful thinking, but surely the best person to decide is ourselves. If a person is not gaining financially, or seeking kudos, then we can use our own rational thinking to decide rather than lump it all into one huge heap and call it bullshit.

I have enjoyed this chapter though. You see what happens Carl Sagan? You teach people to think for themselves and what happens? They won't do as they're told....

In my opinion, it's not wise to make grand sweeping assumptions about Reality.
It's arrogant, but not very wise for a number of reasons.

This is what disinterests me most about celebrity scientists like Sagan.

I plan to read, "The Eerie Silence" by one of my favorite authors, Paul Davies.
Probably immediately after finishing up this book.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Eerie-Silence ... B005OHT0WS

Penelope wrote:Anyway, whilst I have appreciated this chapter and it is good to be reminded to be skeptical and wary, it seems a shame to be completely cynical and miss out on a lot of natural healing techniques.

I wouldn't say we disregard the natural healing techniques. As long as we understand them as naturalistic - ie affecting us through placebo, then we are being honest about the potential limits.

Not only do placebo treatments work because of the impressive powers of our minds, but the body has a natural tendency to heal itself, anyway, which increases the chances that any treatment--or no treatment--will be effective. A doctor once told me something striking. He said that doctors should post a sign in the waiting room reading, "75% of you will get better anyway."

What does the phrase "impressive powers of the mind" mean scientifically?

Our minds are much more powerful than we are generally aware. My husband says that when he worked in Research and Development in the Nuclear Power Industry - he used to go to sleep with a problem/puzzle on his mind, and when he woke up in the morning he often had the answer as though his brain had been working it out whilst he was sleeping. I don't mean he would receive flashes of inspiration, I think it would be more like a mathematical equation.

I don't know whether this is what DWill was meaning,.

I know that our minds can be calmed and influenced by music, or by the reassuring presence of another person.

How to express it scientifically is another matter entirely.

Maybe Interbane would say it stands to reason that we should be able to locate inspiration in the brain and remove it for further analysis.

ant wrote:What does the phrase "impressive powers of the mind" mean scientifically?

I dunno, didn't mean for it to have scientific heft. I'm even a little hazy on what we might mean by use of that word--scientific. What specific quality do we mean to confer?

DWill wrote:

ant wrote:What does the phrase "impressive powers of the mind" mean scientifically?

I dunno, didn't mean for it to have scientific heft. I'm even a little hazy on what we might mean by use of that word--scientific. What specific quality do we mean to confer?

75% of people will get better anyway??

And the scientific explanation would be "because that's what mostly happens. The science of medicine assists health, but does not assure it or its well being"
Maybe?

No doubt we have come a long way. But is there a tendency to overrate our understanding?