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Interbane asked (Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:13 pm): "Muslims made contributions to science that were direct 
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Post Interbane asked (Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:13 pm): "Muslims made contributions to science that were direct
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Dr. Trasancos responds: This is discussed in Chapter III, Section A, subsection vi "Arabia." They made notable and significant advances in translating Greek texts, building schools, and in medicine. However they did not make advances in any area that depended on physical laws of matter. They did not refute the errors of Aristotelian animism, which was based on the idea of a Great Year and that matter had a soul that sought its resting place.

Quote:

As the new religion codified in the Koran was imposed, a giant empire formed “steeped in the conviction that everything in life and in the cosmos depended on the sovereign will of a personal God, the Creator and Lord of all.” [202] The continual study of the Koran inspired intellectual curiosity among faithful Muslims, as did the meticulous scholarship of the Greek philosophical and scientific body of knowledge. [203] So serious was the promotion of knowledge that “Houses of Wisdom” were erected, notably in Baghdad (813– 833), Cairo (966), and in Cordova (961– 976). [204] Cordova amassed over 300,000 volumes for the library and immediately attracted scholars from the Christian West, who were welcomed with hospitality. [205] Chapter III, Section A, subsection vi, paragraph 2

He also asked: "I don't see how cyclical ideologies are supposed to have caused stillbirths. Much of nature is in fact cyclical. Why would this hamper understanding? Sure, there's correlation, but showing causation is a different animal."

The Greeks and the Muslims assumed, based on Aristotelian teaching, that falling bodies fell because of their soul's desire to seek a resting place.

Nature is cyclical, that appreciation is also found throughout the Bible as evidence of God's faithfulness. For non-biblical cultures, observation led to the conclusion that the universe must be cyclical too. It was a matter of faith in divine revelation to instead assert that time had an absolute beginning. By doing so, the Christian scholars refuted the physical error of Aristotle and questioned whether terrestrial and celestial matter moved by physical laws that could be quantified, rather than by their souls seeking rest.

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Aristotle asserted that if two bodies were dropped from the same height at the same time, the one with twice the weight of the other one would fall twice as fast because it had twice the nature and twice the desire to do so. [190] Even though simple observation would prove that false, the hold on the mind of the Greeks of this animistic orthodoxy would not allow it. The Greeks thought of motion as a function of the magnitude, a “striving,” in nature for objects living and non-living. Aristotle dismissed the idea of unresisted motion as unreal or over-abstract. [191] This orthodoxy caused even a genius like Aristotle to be so wrong about the free fall of objects. It is perplexing that no one noticed this falsehood in daily life, not just among the ancient Greeks but, as will be discussed later, among those who followed Aristotle’s orthodoxy into the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries as well. These views were—as has been noted in the Egyptian, Chinese, Indian, and Babylonian cultures already— the result of pantheism. Chapter III, Section A, subsection vi, paragraph 8


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Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:54 am
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Post Re: Interbane asked (Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:13 pm): "Muslims made contributions to science that were direct
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They made notable and significant advances in translating Greek texts, building schools, and in medicine. However they did not make advances in any area that depended on physical laws of matter


We're short changing Islamic culture a bit.

They made significant contributions in mathematics (Al -Battani's introduction of Trigonometry).
One of the earliest known treatise on Algebra was authored.
The use of "zero"

They produced new star charts and improved the methods of calculation for astronomical events and calendrical reckoning.
They developed the astrolabe.

There were significant contributions in Optics.

Anyway, the record is clear.

I am however convinced that Christianity offered a better "home" for the development of science as Naturalism.



Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:42 pm
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Post Re: Interbane asked (Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:13 pm): "Muslims made contributions to science that were direct
SWBOC is not short-changing Islam. The point of the book is that science began in various places but aborted. How much association is there today if science with Islam?


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Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:48 pm
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Post Re: Interbane asked (Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:13 pm): "Muslims made contributions to science that were direct
Quote:
They made notable and significant advances in translating Greek texts, building schools, and in medicine. However they did not make advances in any area that depended on physical laws of matter. They did not refute the errors of Aristotelian animism, which was based on the idea of a Great Year and that matter had a soul that sought its resting place.


Biology depends on physical laws of nature. No Europeans refuted the errors of Aristotelian animism. Show me the refutation. There is a condemnation in 1277, but that is not a refutation. It's instead an attempt to quell understanding that is not taken from the word of god. Or, if not quell, then at least devalue it. As chance would have it, the understanding that was condemned was a false one. But it was not condemned because it was false. It was condemned because it was competing with god's word. This is the same ideological conflict happening today between evolution and creation. True or false, alternative worldviews to Christianity are/were suppressed condemned. The fact that such condemnation may have left room for another more truthful worldview was an unintended consequence.

Part of the mistake in Jaki's definition of science is that it disregards the fact that process is an integral part of science. Any definition of science that's truthful must include process or methodology. Science is not simply about exactness and physical laws. It is a process that elucidates physical laws, and does so in exacting fashion. The process portion matters. Muslims and many other ancients developed processes to uncover knowledge. If that isn't science, it is definitely pre-science. I think process is more important within the definition than exactness.

Quote:
The Greeks and the Muslims assumed, based on Aristotelian teaching, that falling bodies fell because of their soul's desire to seek a resting place.


If there was an aborting factor regarding science, then, it would be dogmatic adherence to Aristotelian teachings. I still don't see how 'cycles' are the dominant focus in the book, and the answers above do not clarify it.

Quote:
Nature is cyclical, that appreciation is also found throughout the Bible as evidence of God's faithfulness.


I don't understand the logic here.

Quote:
Aristotle asserted that if two bodies were dropped from the same height at the same time, the one with twice the weight of the other one would fall twice as fast because it had twice the nature and twice the desire to do so. [190] Even though simple observation would prove that false, the hold on the mind of the Greeks of this animistic orthodoxy would not allow it.


Oh give people some credit, they weren't that stupid. Casual observation wouldn't prove Aristotle wrong. What was required was systematic observation. Observation mixed with process, such as that found in science. There is also too much emphasis on the hold on the minds of Greeks. Aristarchus had ideas that were contrary to Aristotle's within the next century, and his ideas included heliocentrism. I think the "hold" is merely that most people found Aristotle's ideas sufficient to build a worldview. But that doesn't mean all people found them sufficient.


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Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:47 pm
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