Ch. 14: Talking to the Ex-Mormons of the Future-Today!

[Chris OConnor]

Ch. 14: Talking to the Ex-Mormons of the Future-Today!

[youkrst]

One common theme from interviews with former Mormons (or “Formons”cccliv ) is that Mormonism is more than a religion; it is an all-encompassing world unto itself. And those that leave it can find themselves feeling like strangers in a strange land, alone for the first time in their lives:

“Leaving the Mormon Church was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. I had to choose between being honest with myself and others, or living up to expectations. I lost 99% of my social life, my relationship with my family is likely permanently damaged, and I still have some leftover psychological issues thanks to the LDS church upbringing. I got out early enough in life that I’m a lot better off than most ex-Mormons. Those who went on missions, got married, had families before figuring it all out, tend to have even more issues than I ever did. Things are much better 13+ years later, but it was nasty for a very long time. I still occasionally have church-related nightmares.” —Erin McBride

[youkrst]

def. my fave part of the book, it's like a hall of fame

“The psychology they’ve built in their brain to support their personal belief system is more complex than you can fathom. Picture a 30-foot tall tangled ball of Christmas lights. That’s a Mormon’s brain. You’re not going to be able to untangle it for them. For most of us that wake up and exit, we have to spend a significant amount of time unraveling that mess.

as i read the last section i was electrified reading the words of those who fought and won the battle for their own minds against overwhelming odds.

to me they are heroes, they overcame such adversity and emerged from a knockdown dragout fight victorious...

these are my kind of people

drop them in hell and they will tear it up from the inside out.

PURE INSPIRATION

viva la victors

[Mahree]

Truly! It would be like living in Russia or East Berlin before they were open. Only giving you false information about the outside world, making it look corrupt and delusional. Controlling every facet of your life. Crazy.

[KayR]

Ummm... I kind of think the restrictions on Mormon teens sound pretty good... If we could shift the core to a focus on science and math I think the US would become the new Asia (I'd like to make that a triad with history--fact-based, not "inspirational"--added in).
On the other hand, do the rigid a schedule and the demands of that schedule stymie critical thinking in developing teens? Or does it actually provide a much needed structural bridge between childhood and adulthood and build a foundation of self-reliance which, given a more rational focus, could be tremendously empowering? The kids that I've met at the church have an amazing sense of self-confidence, but their heads are full of religious nonsense. I'd love to keep their self-confidence and replace the nonsense with sense.
I absolutely loved this chapter.

[Mahree]

I went through the teen years. It isn't easy. But I didn't think of giving them ritalin to suppress their curiousity for life. The restrictions Mormons place on the teens do not appear desirable. The world changes at a gradual pace and all children should be present. It more dangerous not to be a part of this change than to be within it. No matter how bad some may say the public schools have gotten or the drugs that tempt our young people or anything negative– to want to shield them is a travesty. These are learning years, years for them to make stupid mistakes. Some need to touch the hot lid on the stove. The Mormons are not the only people that possess self-confident teens. Self-confidence comes from a feeling that you have made the right decisions. When all you have around you are people talking the same crap and making the same decisions–they all have self-confidence, but in such a minuscule, confined domain of existence. Their self-confidence is limited to their environment.

As for talking to Mormons that come to my door, I have no desire. I'm not here to convert religious nuts to go my way. I'm perfectly happy with people believing some super-natural power exists, as long as they leave me alone. I had Jehovah's Witnesses at the door the other day. I always ask these religious peddlers if they believe in "The Boogie Man?" They always say, no, of course. Then I ask if they are afraid of "The Boogie Man?" Well, of course not. If I don't believe in something then why would I want to talk about it? Your God is like talking about a boogie man to you. They seem to understand that, which I give them credit. I try to make it simple, lol.

[tayman0522]

So, you are advocating that children and teens need to get hurt or be hurt in order to understand the world better? That shielding them from the dangers of drugs, sexually transmitted diseases, and drinking alcohol is a travesty? Try telling that to the parents who have lost a loved one because of these vices. Since when did it become wrong to want to protect our children?

Children gain self-confidence when they make the right choices and they see the consequences of those choices. Also, these charges of brainwashing are weak attempts to counter the actual faith that is felt by adherants to the commandments given to us by a loving Heavenly Father. You may call them restraints, but I call them protections from the unintended and often painful consequences of sin.

The reason that Mormon missionaries go door to door is not to try to convince people of what we believe, but to find those that want a better life, to have joy where there is sadness, comfort where there is despair, and peace where there is turmoil.

Trust me, I have peace in my life because I have faith in a God that loves me unconditionally. You can choose to enjoy the fruits of living a life of faith, or you can choose to go your own way. Your free agency cannot be taken away from you, not even by God. But understand that you will have to live with those choices...

[Mahree]

Well, you are taking what I said to an extreme, as you do your religion. It is very hard to rationalize with an extremist. Your children cannot make choices if they are only given one to choose. You feel you are doing the right thing, but your tactics keep your children segregated while you pound "your" beliefs in their heads. They should be able to choose what they want to believe in, not you. So yes, you are brainwashing your children whether you are commonsensical enough to see that or not.

If you presume your church is going door to door to help people find a better life, then again you have been tricked. It's a big money making business, trying to match their loses by recruiting new people.

You may think you have a better life, but you too, have been brainwashed, to believe that. If being controlled makes you happy, then that is exactly how you should live your life. But, I feel sorry for your children. Faith in your God is the fruit of life? So threats, bullying, restrictions and isolation are the fruits of life? Yes, you will have to live with those choices......

One of my favorite quotes: "I would rather have a mind opened by wonder, than one closed by belief." Gerry Spence

I think we can agree on one thing–we wouldn't trade places.

[KayR]

Historically, children's lives were dominated by responsibilities beginning at an early age. Granted, we send our kids to school now rather than out to the pasture to guard the sheep, but afternoons off simply weren't an option. Life in general was a lot more structured by the responsibilities of producing what was needed for survival: tending crops, mending fences, spinning yarn, collecting kindling, making butter.... Until a short time ago, we were an agrarian nation (as most of the world is still an agrarian world). Free time and the luxury to "let kids find themselves" is a relatively new phenomenon. Has it been a positive change? Remember that old saying "Idle hands make the devil's work"? That wasn't about religion--it simply recognizes that when a person is bored they look for excitement, and that frequently involves toying with the bounds of danger. Humans love thrills--and an unlimited diet of thrills is as dangerous for health and welfare as an unlimited diet of chocolate cheesecake. I think the Mormon demands on teens look a lot more like the historical demands of time management that have dominated most of human existence.

[Robert Tulip]

Tayman makes some valid points here. Traditional societies are conservative because they maintain a continuity of teaching about lifestyles that lead to good and bad outcomes, based on extensive experience and observation.

Overall, the positive outcomes of this conservative approach - a happy and successful life for those who can conform - appear to outweigh the negatives - ie the bad effects of the narrow outlook of those who have an extreme caution about risk and change. Caution means that people are less open to creativity and change and new ideas. If you think of rock stars (eg Lou Reed who died this week), people may admire him as a rebel and creative talent, but most people don't regard him as a role model.

I find this a fascinating debate in the context of free thought. It is not sensible to lead people to break the law or hurt themselves just to find out the results or for the sake of freedom. The complex framework of religion serves as protection against even considering 'evil sinful' acts.

Science says heaven and hell don't exist. The psychological and social and ethical protection that these old ideas provide has not found a replacement, since science lacks any absolute framework of values.

So, you are advocating that children and teens need to get hurt or be hurt in order to understand the world better? That shielding them from the dangers of drugs, sexually transmitted diseases, and drinking alcohol is a travesty? Try telling that to the parents who have lost a loved one because of these vices. Since when did it become wrong to want to protect our children?

Children gain self-confidence when they make the right choices and they see the consequences of those choices. Also, these charges of brainwashing are weak attempts to counter the actual faith that is felt by adherants to the commandments given to us by a loving Heavenly Father. You may call them restraints, but I call them protections from the unintended and often painful consequences of sin.

The reason that Mormon missionaries go door to door is not to try to convince people of what we believe, but to find those that want a better life, to have joy where there is sadness, comfort where there is despair, and peace where there is turmoil.

Trust me, I have peace in my life because I have faith in a God that loves me unconditionally. You can choose to enjoy the fruits of living a life of faith, or you can choose to go your own way. Your free agency cannot be taken away from you, not even by God. But understand that you will have to live with those choices...