Ch. 9: What Electric Eels Tell Us About the Evolution of Religion
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:08 pm
Ch. 9: What Electric Eels Tell Us About the Evolution of Religion
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Among the Australian tribes it was a common practice to knock out one or more of a boy’s front teeth at those ceremonies of initiation to which every male member had to submit before he could enjoy the rights and privileges of a full-grown man. The reason of the practice is obscure; all that concerns us here is the belief that a sympathetic relation continued to exist between the lad and his teeth after the latter had been extracted from his gums. Thus among some of the tribes about the river Darling, in New South Wales, the extracted tooth was placed under the bark of a tree near a river or water-hole; if the bark grew over the tooth, or if the tooth fell into the water, all was well; but if it were exposed and the ants ran over it, the natives believed that the boy would suffer from a disease of the mouth. Among the Murring and other tribes of New South Wales the extracted tooth was at first taken care of by an old man, and then passed from one headman to another, until it had gone all round the community, when it came back to the lad’s father, and finally to the lad himself.
It's interesting to see how magical thinking was used not only for social bonding but to reinforce gender roles in a society. Also, we see the beginnings of the kind of thinking that would lead later to belief in a soul.If a horse wounds its foot by treading on a nail, a Suffolk groom will invariably preserve the nail, clean it, and grease it every day, to prevent the foot from festering. Similarly Cambridgeshire labourers think that if a horse has run a nail into its foot, it is necessary to grease the nail with lard or oil and put it away in some safe place, or the horse will not recover. A few years ago a veterinary surgeon was sent for to attend a horse which had ripped its side open on the hinge of a farm gatepost. On arriving at the farm he found that nothing had been done for the wounded horse, but that a man was busy trying to pry the hinge out of the gatepost in order that it might be greased and put away, which, in the opinion of the Cambridge wiseacres, would conduce to the recovery of the animal.
Interesting stuff.Further, the sympathetic connexion supposed to exist between a person and his afterbirth or navel-string comes out very clearly in the widespread custom of treating the afterbirth or navel-string in ways which are supposed to influence for life the character and career of the person, making him, if it is a man, a nimble climber, a strong swimmer, a skilful hunter, or a brave soldier, and making her, if it is a woman, a cunning sempstress, a good baker, and so forth. Thus the beliefs and usages concerned with the afterbirth or placenta, and to a less extent with the navel-string, present a remarkable parallel to the widespread doctrine of the transferable or external soul and the customs founded on it. Hence it is hardly rash to conjecture that the resemblance is no mere chance coincidence, but that in the afterbirth or placenta we have a physical basis (not necessarily the only one) for the theory and practice of the external soul. The consideration of that subject is reserved for a later part of this work.
Like Robert Wright in The Evolution of God, Frazer also suggests that magical thinking preceded religion. See this passage:DWill wrote:Animism and theism are usually considered as separate, but it must be true that theism grew out of animism. Sonoman, your language isn't always easy for me to understand, but what is it exactly about an overactive agent detection device in human brains that is so implausible in explaining the origin of animism? Do I read you correctly that human perception of such spirits or forces must mean that they really exist?
Note how he says "evolution" of thought.Frazer wrote:In some parts of Melanesia a like belief prevails that certain sacred stones are endowed with miraculous powers which correspond in their nature to the shape of the stone. Thus a piece of water-worn coral on the beach often bears a surprising likeness to a bread-fruit. Hence in the Banks Islands a man who finds such a coral will lay it at the root of one of his bread-fruit trees in the expectation that it will make the tree bear well. If the result answers his expectation, he will then, for a proper remuneration, take stones of less-marked character from other men and let them lie near his, in order to imbue them with the magic virtue which resides in it. Similarly, a stone with little discs upon it is good to bring in money; and if a man found a large stone with a number of small ones under it, like a sow among her litter, he was sure that to offer money upon it would bring him pigs. In these and similar cases the Melanesians ascribe the marvellous power, not to the stone itself, but to its indwelling spirit; and sometimes, as we have just seen, a man endeavours to propitiate the spirit by laying down offerings on the stone. But the conception of spirits that must be propitiated lies outside the sphere of magic, and within that of religion. Where such a conception is found, as here, in conjunction with purely magical ideas and practices, the latter may generally be assumed to be the original stock on which the religious conception has been at some later time engrafted. For there are strong grounds for thinking that, in the evolution of thought, magic has preceded religion. But to this point we shall return presently.
Our big brains and the development of intricate language changed everything, Sonoman. We evolved as storytelling creatures, inventing myths to explain the way the world is long before science. I'd say we still engage in magical thinking on many levels. (But what do I know, I'm just an armchair philosopher.) Frazer lists countless examples of magical thinking and superstition, both in the distant past and in the very near past and present too. Our brains probably haven't changed that much in the last 100,000 years.sonoman wrote:I've told you before that sympathetic magic is at the root of all human language so when you're trying to disassociate human rationality from religious beliefs you really need to factor that in before trotting off with the various atheists attempts to explain a phenomena they have no experience in. And again, by never answering my question how does any thinking animal originate invisible spiritual forces acting upon their world in the first place since atheists tell us everything is materially explained. We don't see lions or wolves expending energy in any actions that hint of invisible forces in their lives and so far our closest relatives also do not do so. So I ask you again where does the original invisible force and invisible spirit idea come from in any animal dealing with material survival? In short, these "explanations" of how religious ideas originate in human beings are fabrications that leave out the foundational stimulus that humans are responding to. You can see the vapidity of the "science" answer in this:
http://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2009/6335.htmlHood wrote:We are pre-wired with a mind design that creates a 'supersense' that shapes our intuitions and superstitions and is essential to the way we learn to understand the world.
Question: Who or what came into my mind as a mental epiphany when I was an atheist, never read the Bible or any religious text except the I Ching and parts of Taoist texts and the Book of the Hopi and informed me through through synchronicity experiences following after the mental revelations that these were happening to me outside of my control, because I couldn't manipulate my world to link mental epiphanies with synchronistic events, only God could do that. Tell me, how and why an atheist would manufacture a series of experiences of spiritual reception complete with a Program that was traditionally or historically based. Tell me, tell us, how this comes about through any of your atheist explanations of theistic events. Where did I see the face of Jesus in the cloud formation when it was dark and me lying in bed getting my spiritual revelations? Where did I confuse the rumble of thunder for the voice of God? Oh yes, I most certainly did have spiritual experiences in which God "talks" in sign language, synchronicity events, but it happened in a three days string of such events that if you've got an explanation for how that happened please give it as I don't--except I went through a profound religious conversion experience with latter events not taking anything away but adding and adding and adding new spiritual knowledge in a most logical of religious theologies so that now I have a virtually bullet-proof Christian theology that none of you atheists can touch with your feeble counter arguments. I mean I've been mostly defending my theist beliefs here by using strict logic and no references to my own spiritual beliefs but when I do that it makes your arguments seem more absurd because they can't begin to explain the original or continuing Christian theology that pervades my spiritual experiences. Remember, I was an atheist the day before going through this initial conversion experience with no intention whatsoever of "believing" any religious ideas. Why do spiritual experiences follow definite historically developed forms if they are based in non-spiritual materialistic things? Answer? Because the Spirit is real and yes, it does impact our world all the time. Most of us just aren't aware of it and atheists least aware of all because of lack of spiritual reception ability.DWill wrote:Animism and theism are usually considered as separate, but it must be true that theism grew out of animism. Sonoman, your language isn't always easy for me to understand, but what is it exactly about an overactive agent detection device in human brains that is so implausible in explaining the origin of animism? Do I read you correctly that human perception of such spirits or forces must mean that they really exist?
I note the lack of an answer to my question as well as the clear attitude of, "I can hardly stand to respond to fools like you."sonoman wrote:
Question: Who or what came into my mind as a mental epiphany when I was an atheist, never read the Bible or any religious text except the I Ching and parts of Taoist texts and the Book of the Hopi and informed me through through synchronicity experiences following after the mental revelations that these were happening to me outside of my control, because I couldn't manipulate my world to link mental epiphanies with synchronistic events, only God could do that. Tell me, how and why an atheist would manufacture a series of experiences of spiritual reception complete with a Program that was traditionally or historically based. Tell me, tell us, how this comes about through any of your atheist explanations of theistic events. Where did I see the face of Jesus in the cloud formation when it was dark and me lying in bed getting my spiritual revelations? Where did I confuse the rumble of thunder for the voice of God? Oh yes, I most certainly did have spiritual experiences in which God "talks" in sign language, synchronicity events, but it happened in a three days string of such events that if you've got an explanation for how that happened please give it as I don't--except I went through a profound religious conversion experience with latter events not taking anything away but adding and adding and adding new spiritual knowledge in a most logical of religious theologies so that now I have a virtually bullet-proof Christian theology that none of you atheists can touch with your feeble counter arguments. I mean I've been mostly defending my theist beliefs here by using strict logic and no references to my own spiritual beliefs but when I do that it makes your arguments seem more absurd because they can't begin to explain the original or continuing Christian theology that pervades my spiritual experiences. Remember, I was an atheist the day before going through this initial conversion experience with no intention whatsoever of "believing" any religious ideas. Why do spiritual experiences follow definite historically developed forms if they are based in non-spiritual materialistic things? Answer? Because the Spirit is real and yes, it does impact our world all the time. Most of us just aren't aware of it and atheists least aware of all because of lack of spiritual reception ability.
When you can answer my question posted above with reasoned argument and not more of the atheist ad hominen attack on me, then you will have your answer, won't you? My attitude responds to atheist provocation of "answering" me with slander and anything to avoid trying to answer my challenge questions that expose atheist irrationality in dealing with theism.DWill wrote:I note the lack of an answer to my question as well as the clear attitude of, "I can hardly stand to respond to fools like you."sonoman wrote:
Question: Who or what came into my mind as a mental epiphany when I was an atheist, never read the Bible or any religious text except the I Ching and parts of Taoist texts and the Book of the Hopi and informed me through through synchronicity experiences following after the mental revelations that these were happening to me outside of my control, because I couldn't manipulate my world to link mental epiphanies with synchronistic events, only God could do that. Tell me, how and why an atheist would manufacture a series of experiences of spiritual reception complete with a Program that was traditionally or historically based. Tell me, tell us, how this comes about through any of your atheist explanations of theistic events. Where did I see the face of Jesus in the cloud formation when it was dark and me lying in bed getting my spiritual revelations? Where did I confuse the rumble of thunder for the voice of God? Oh yes, I most certainly did have spiritual experiences in which God "talks" in sign language, synchronicity events, but it happened in a three days string of such events that if you've got an explanation for how that happened please give it as I don't--except I went through a profound religious conversion experience with latter events not taking anything away but adding and adding and adding new spiritual knowledge in a most logical of religious theologies so that now I have a virtually bullet-proof Christian theology that none of you atheists can touch with your feeble counter arguments. I mean I've been mostly defending my theist beliefs here by using strict logic and no references to my own spiritual beliefs but when I do that it makes your arguments seem more absurd because they can't begin to explain the original or continuing Christian theology that pervades my spiritual experiences. Remember, I was an atheist the day before going through this initial conversion experience with no intention whatsoever of "believing" any religious ideas. Why do spiritual experiences follow definite historically developed forms if they are based in non-spiritual materialistic things? Answer? Because the Spirit is real and yes, it does impact our world all the time. Most of us just aren't aware of it and atheists least aware of all because of lack of spiritual reception ability.