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Part One, Chapters V–VI (5 - 6)

#111: Sept. - Nov. 2012 (Fiction)
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Chris OConnor

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Part One, Chapters V–VI (5 - 6)

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Part One, Chapters V–VI (5 - 6)

Please use this thread for discussing the above chapters. You're welcome to create your own threads too.
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Re: Part One, Chapters V–VI (5 - 6)

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Francisco D'Anconia is built up as another Hero in this chapter, with his childhood experiences with the Taggarts and his excellence in every pursuit he touches. But back to the very beginning of the chapter, Frisco is a Hero of a very different sort.
The story on the front page announced that upon taking over the San Sebastian Mines, the government of the People's State of Mexico had discovered that they were worthless—blatantly, totally, hopelessly worthless. There was nothing to justify the five years of work and the millions spent; nothing but empty excavations, laboriously cut. The few traces of copper were not worth the effort of extracting them. No great deposits of metal existed or could be expected to exist there, and there were no indications that could have permitted anyone to be deluded. The government of the People's State of Mexico was holding emergency sessions about their discovery, in an uproar of indignation; they felt that they had been cheated.

...(Eddie Willers) said, his voice low, "Francisco is not a fool. Whatever else he may be, no matter what depravity he's sunk to—and I've given up trying to figure out why—he is not a fool. He couldn't have made a mistake of this kind. It is not possible. I don't understand it."

"I'm beginning to." (Dagny)
Another hint of hidden motives that will be admitted to, but remain unexplained later in this chapter. "Something is afoot", as Sherlock Holmes might say...
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Re: Part One, Chapters V–VI (5 - 6)

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At the end of Chapter IV "The Immovable Movers", Hank says to Dagny "whatever we are, it's we who move the world and it's we who'll pull it through." In this chapter, Dagny looks at Frisco and thinks "We are not to be stopped, you and I . . ." Obviously our Heroes are destined to strut across the world stage in titanium exoskeletons. :cylon:

___________________________

"Francisco, what's the most depraved type of human being?"
"The man without a purpose."

Ummmmm.... Seriously? We're supposed to believe that? Perhaps that's true for the Robo-Utilitarian where waste is worse than Evil?
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Re: Part One, Chapters V–VI (5 - 6)

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A drum roll please, for a biggie...
"Dagny, there's nothing of any importance in life—except how well you do your work. Nothing. Only that. Whatever else you are, will come from that. It's the only measure of human value. All the codes of ethics they'll try to ram down your throat are just so much paper money put out by swindlers to fleece people of their virtues. The code of competence is the only system of morality that's on a gold standard. When you grow up, you'll know what I mean."

"I know it now. But . . . Francisco, why are you and I the only ones who seem to know it?"
Oh.Em.Gee. Please.Discuss.
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Re: Part One, Chapters V–VI (5 - 6)

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Immediately after the above conversation, we have this disturbing scene.
"Well, I've always been unpopular in school and it didn't bother me, but now I've discovered the reason. It's an impossible kind of reason. They dislike me, not because I do things badly, but because I do them well. They dislike me because I've always had the best grades in the class. I don't even have to study. I always get A's. Do you suppose I should try to get D's for a change and become the most popular girl in school?"

Francisco stopped, looked at her and slapped her face.

What she felt was contained in a single instant, while the ground rocked under her feet, in a single blast of emotion within her. She knew that she would have killed any other person who struck her; she felt the violent fury which would have given her the strength for it—and as violent a pleasure that Francisco had done it. She felt pleasure from the dull, hot pain in her cheek and from the taste of blood in the corner of her mouth. She felt pleasure in what she suddenly grasped about him, about herself and about his motive. She braced her feet to stop the dizziness, she held her head straight and stood facing him in the consciousness of a new power, feeling herself his equal for the first time, looking at him with a mocking smile of triumph.

"Did I hurt you as much as that?" she asked.
He looked astonished; the question and the smile were not those of a child. He answered, "Yes—if it pleases you."
"It does."
"Don't ever do that again. Don't crack jokes of that kind."
"Don't be a fool. Whatever made you think that I cared about being popular?"
"When you grow up, you'll understand what sort of unspeakable thing you said."
"I understand it now."
He turned abruptly, took out his handkerchief and dipped it in the water of the river. "Come here," he ordered.
She laughed, stepping back, "Oh no. I want to keep it as it is. I hope it swells terribly. I like it."
He looked at her for a long moment. He said slowly, very earnestly, "Dagny, you're wonderful."
"I thought that you always thought so," she answered, her voice insolently casual.
When she came home, she told her mother that she had cut her lip by falling against a rock. It was the only lie she ever told.
p.77 - 78
OK we can understand Frisco's reason for wanting to slap Dagny, but to actually do it? And to have Dagny taking pleasure in a lesson well taught? Need some help on this one. I suspect this won't be the last act of pedagogical violence.
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Re: Part One, Chapters V–VI (5 - 6)

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Rand's values derive from her extreme experience under the first ten years of Russian communism, where everything solid melted into air and truth was transformed into its bloody opposite by the Leninist insanity. So she presents stark logical consequences of seemingly innocuous attitudes on the basis of bitter formative memories.

Rand sees the cult of popularity through hypocrisy as the greatest evil, which is why Frisco slaps Dagny for joking about it. Rand's point about morality is that ethical systems should build on a foundation of good action. Honest pursuit of wealth delivers far more benefits, is far more transformative, and lifts others up far more than any charitable good works, which only address symptoms rather than causes.

Cultivating your talents and fulfilling your potential is the highest good in Rand's moral scheme. Everything else flows from personal attitude. Not doing your best, and seeking popularity above integrity, are the start of a slippery slope to the evil of collectivist stagnation.
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Re: Part One, Chapters V–VI (5 - 6)

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Robert Tulip wrote:Rand's values derive from her extreme experience under the first ten years of Russian communism, where everything solid melted into air and truth was transformed into its bloody opposite by the Leninist insanity. So she presents stark logical consequences of seemingly innocuous attitudes on the basis of bitter formative memories.

Rand sees the cult of popularity through hypocrisy as the greatest evil, which is why Frisco slaps Dagny for joking about it. Rand's point about morality is that ethical systems should build on a foundation of good action. Honest pursuit of wealth delivers far more benefits, is far more transformative, and lifts others up far more than any charitable good works, which only address symptoms rather than causes.

Cultivating your talents and fulfilling your potential is the highest good in Rand's moral scheme. Everything else flows from personal attitude. Not doing your best, and seeking popularity above integrity, are the start of a slippery slope to the evil of collectivist stagnation.
Exactly, Robert. Also, Rand was a Romantic. Her ideal man was tall, slender and light eyed. She browbeat her husband (who was a handsome Hollywood actor) but subliminally longed for a man who would take control. There is also a rape scene in The Fountainhead, after which the woman is complacent. The dichotomy in Rand's female characters represent her own struggle with controlling the men in her life and wanting a man as intelligent as she who would control her, at least some of the time.
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Re: Part One, Chapters V–VI (5 - 6)

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Robert Tulip wrote:Rand's values derive from her extreme experience under the first ten years of Russian communism, where everything solid melted into air and truth was transformed into its bloody opposite by the Leninist insanity. So she presents stark logical consequences of seemingly innocuous attitudes on the basis of bitter formative memories.
True, but I'd take issue with the bold part. Rand has business executives spouting commie slogans, which doesn't seem realistic at this point in the book. I wonder if the book would be more effective if they actually stated "seemingly innocuous attitudes". In contemporary terms, she would be more extreme than the Tea Party, so having the executives make statements somewhere near the middle/mainstream might be more instructive. I dunno, it's still early in the book and I haven't written a blockbuster, so I'm just speculating.

Lindad, we may have to start a thread at some point which explores the differences between Rand's philosophy and how she lived her life...

:bananen_smilies085: <=For no reason whatsoever
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Re: Part One, Chapters V–VI (5 - 6)

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LanDroid, count me in on that one. Atlas is full of philosophical dictates made in a vacuum. A look at her life shows how destructive her philosophy is in reality.
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Re: Part One, Chapters V–VI (5 - 6)

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Hi Everybody, there were a few things that jumped out at me in these chapters. I particurlarly enjoyed the scene in chapter 6 where Frisco D'Anconia tells James that he incorporated all of the important moral issues and beliefs into the San Sebastian Mines and that since James is such a believer in these ideals that he should be happy that Frisco lost millions of his dollars in such a wonderful way. I also found it interesting when Frisco tells Dagny that he lost 15 mil of his own money but much more of Boyle's, Taggart's etc and that he is trying to wipe them out. I wonder if he is trying to ruin these businesses so the country will hit bottom and there will have to be changes?

We also start to see a few common traits among certain characters, such as Patrick Henry University as the educational institutional of D'Anconia and Ragnar Danneskjold. Both of whom were expected to do great things and came from old, families but both embraced unexpected paths. D'Anconia allegedly becoming a playboy (I say allegedly as I think he has a hidden plan here - that he has alluded to several times) and Danneskjold becoming a pirate.

It is also odd that everyone that people think of as great from the past they now believe to be dead, but they are actually alive - Halley and D'Anconia's old philopshy professor, which brings us to question the assumption of whether Galt is really dead or not. Rearden has also now been struck by the sudden resignation of one of his best employees. We also finally hear more about John Galt and that he was once a very wealth individual who sunk his own yacht and all its crew because he wanted to reach Atlantis. D'Anconia confirms that this story of Galt is true which Dagny hears from an old woman, but the old woman allegedly heard it from the only survivor so we are led to ask the question how does Frisco know that it is true? I'm also curious to see if Ragnar the pirate appears any more in the story. It seems odd that the first mention of any real information on John Galt has him as a wealthy sailor and that this appears in the same chapter as Ragnar the pirate, who also is quite wealthy and whose ship is in much better shape than the various navies of the world trying to catch him.

The other very powerful scene in chapter six is when Dagny exchanges her diamond bracelet for Lillian Rearden's bracelet of Rearden metal. Hank is unable to talk with Dagny in the setting of the party because he is not comfortable here, but he gets extremely angry over the bracelet swap.
His eyes remained expressionless. Yet she was suddenly certain that she knew what he felt: he wanted to slap her face.
This is interesting to compare to LanDroid's quote of Frisco slapping Dagny when they were younger. Both instances Dagny is questioning the supposed values of society. Frisco slaps her for indicating that she might should conform to them, and Hank wants to slap her for questioning his wife's and society's criticisms of him and business in general. After this Hank decides that he no longer wants his wife and the reader is made to think he is focusing on Dagny now in a sexual way, which based on her history with Frisco this seems possible.
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