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Re: Part One, Chapters III–IV (3 - 4)

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:37 pm
by LanDroid
The book isn't all about business, there is some art thrown in. Dagny HATES contemporary music.
Above the door of a shop, the black hole of a radio loudspeaker was hurling sounds at the streets. They were the sounds of a symphony concert being given somewhere in the city. They were a long screech without shape, as of cloth and flesh being torn at random. They scattered with no melody, no harmony, no rhythm to hold them. If music was emotion and emotion came from thought, then this was the scream of chaos, of the irrational, of the helpless, of man's self-abdication. (p.51)
In contrast, it appears there is only one acceptable composer.
She turned to a phonograph and put on a record of the music of Richard Halley. It was his Fourth Concerto, the last work he had written. The crash of its opening chords swept the sights of the streets away from her mind. The Concerto was a great cry of rebellion. It was a "No" flung at some vast process of torture, a denial of suffering, a denial that held the agony of the struggle to break free. The sounds were like a voice saying: There is no necessity for pain—why, then, is the worst pain reserved for those who will not accept its necessity?—we who hold the love and the secret of joy, to what punishment have we been sentenced for it, and by whom? . . . The sounds of torture became defiance, the statement of agony became a hymn to a distant vision for whose sake anything was worth enduring, even this. It was the song of rebellion—and of a desperate quest.

Re: Part One, Chapters III–IV (3 - 4)

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:52 pm
by LanDroid
We meet Dan Conway, head of the Phoenix-Durango railroad line.
The whole sphere of human endeavors, with one exception, left him blankly indifferent; he had no touch of that which people called culture. But he knew railroads. p.60
Good lord, ANOTHER robot? Dagny, Rearden, (Ellis Wyatt?), and now Dan Conway? What is with these emotional cripples? Is this required in order to be Heroic? I suspect this interior vacuum is required in order to accept the flinty detached philosophy we are uncovering...

Re: Part One, Chapters III–IV (3 - 4)

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:06 pm
by LanDroid
Here's another little mystery that Rand has been hinting about from time to time. In a converstaion between Dagny and Hank:
"So I can't understand why Jim—" She stopped.
"—tries his best to harm my business? Because your brother Jim is a fool."
"He is. But it's more than that. There's something worse than stupidity about it." p.66
Hmmmm.... Hidden motives behind Jim Taggart's actions against Durango and Reardon which I s'pose will be revealed later...

Re: Part One, Chapters III–IV (3 - 4)

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:37 pm
by lindad_amato
I suspect that Dagny is not referring to any conniving on Jim's part, he really is too stupid. I'm thinking that we're heading toward Rand's definition of morality on this one. Since she is an Atheist, her philosophy on what is moral, or not, is wrapped up with Capitalism and the ability of the individual to achieve his highest status through his business accomplishments.

Re: Part One, Chapters III–IV (3 - 4)

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:26 pm
by sal10e
Hi TigerLily, Having just finished chapter IV I can't say for sure, but I expect James and his friends to try and put a stop to Hank Rearden and Rearden Metal based on their barroom conversation. After the Anti-Dog-Eat-Dog was passed Boyle and James Taggart's talk confirms that one has delivered to get rid of Taggart's competition now it is time for Taggart to get rid of Boyle's (ie Rearden).

A couple things stuck out to me in these chapters, one being that everyone was suddenly feeling tired and did not feel like doing anything. Dan Conway of Phoenix Durango's refusal to fight reminded me of the Taggart employee who quit for no apparent reason- both just giving up like they had reached all that they could handle and no longer felt like being movers.

I was also struck by the contrast in Dagny and Hank's conversation and the barroom conversation with James, Boyle and the two others. The latter being very evasive and trying to get things done in roundabout ways without every really saying or making decisions. Hank and Dagny say exactly what they need and are done negotiating in less than a paragraph. Rand seems to be indicating that all this extra effort the others are having to expend to figure out what others want them to do versus doing what they want to do or should is not just odd, but tiring and ludicrous. The second similar comparison is between Hank and Dagny when they see limitless opportunities based on Rearden Metal and the revitalization of the Taggart Transcontinental, as they believe they make their own opportunities. Contrast this with Hank and Betty Pope's conversation (and others in these chapters) where they keep stating they have nothing to do, nothing has any point or purpose and there are just essentially drifting with the currents waiting to be told what they should be doing.

The last item I wanted to point out was James is so upset about the nationalization of the railroad in Mexico and that government's actions, but he fails to see that they are doing a similar thing with the Anti-Dog-Eat-Dog rule.

Re: Part One, Chapters III–IV (3 - 4)

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:37 pm
by sal10e
Hi LanDroid, I don't think Rand really means that Hank, Dagny, Conway and Ellis Wyatt are emotional cripples as they are actually very passionate about their work and want others to feel passion as well (it doesn't have to be about work, but for example Hank wants his brother to feel passion about anything). I see James, Hank's brother and many of the others as emotional cripples as the do not feel very little other than what they think they are suppose to
To them, the act of sex was neither joy nor sin. It meant nothing. They had heard that men and women were supposed to sleep together, so they did.
In particular to the line you quote about Conway, I see Rand using that to ridicule the supposed upper crust of society who believes they are better and have more culture than those who do not. You can be good at something and make money, you just have to work and really understand what it is your doing. James and his friends all believe themselves to be cultured and highly intelligent but they extremely incompetent and don't even realize despite their having the qualities that society believes are necessary to be goodand powerful business men. They refuse to make decisions and don't actually work (James hadn't read Dagny's reports in 3 months), and their lack of decisions often have to be undone by others for their to be an real achievement.

Re: Part One, Chapters III–IV (3 - 4)

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:07 pm
by lindad_amato
LanDroid wrote:We meet Dan Conway, head of the Phoenix-Durango railroad line.
The whole sphere of human endeavors, with one exception, left him blankly indifferent; he had no touch of that which people called culture. But he knew railroads. p.60
Good lord, ANOTHER robot? Dagny, Rearden, (Ellis Wyatt?), and now Dan Conway? What is with these emotional cripples? Is this required in order to be Heroic? I suspect this interior vacuum is required in order to accept the flinty detached philosophy we are uncovering...
I agree completely Rand's characters are too one dimensional for me.

Re: Part One, Chapters III–IV (3 - 4)

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:46 pm
by LanDroid
sal10e said " I don't think Rand really means that Hank, Dagny, Conway and Ellis Wyatt are emotional cripples as they are actually very passionate about their work and want others to feel passion as well..."

OK maybe emotional cripple isn't quite right, perhaps more like Asperger Syndrome or a mild Autism. These characters do have emotions, but Rand describes them as being quite baffled by most human interactions. Reardon cannot understand why people go to parties and want to be gay in the old fashioned sense of the word. It's not work, they're not making money at the activity, so why do they bother to be happy in these surroundings? Again I suspect that sort of deep aloofness is required to accept the philosophy that is being revealed...

Re: Part One, Chapters III–IV (3 - 4)

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:46 pm
by sal10e
Hi LanDroid, I think Asperger's or mild Autism is a better description but I think ascribing the personality problem to Hank, Dagny, Conway and Ellis Wyatt is a bit one-sided. These characters are the few characters that appear to have real emotions. The other characters James, Betty Pope, Reardon's family aren't happy and don't enjoy parties or have emotions about them-they go to parties and have them because that is what they think they are suppose to be doing and it is what society expects them to do. this is really shown in chp 6.

Re: Part One, Chapters III–IV (3 - 4)

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:51 pm
by LanDroid
Is there anything about the "anti-dog-eat-dog" rule that could not happen in pure laissez-faire Capitalism? I think the answer is no. Business leaders get together and enforce an industry rule about how to compete; the Government is not involved. In fact Government regulation is about the only way to prevent such collusion, ay? Is Rand unwittingly building a strong counter-argument to her own position?