denisecummins wrote:
The question is which one is the "right" answer. Moral judgments are not like math decisions; there aren't clear right or wrong answers. Even moral philosophers disagree, so normative moral theories are frequently based on consensus.
To use again the "murderer at the door" example, Kant believed it was always wrong to lie, even if lying would save an innocent life. Utilitarians like Bentham and Mill believed saving a life outweighed the minor wrong of lying. Kant was concerned with deriving universal categorical imperatives that applied to everyone everywhere and every time. Obviously, not everyone agrees with that.
So what is "rational/relevant" and what is "irrational/irrelevant" is not clear cut. Psychopaths and people with damage to ventromedial prefrontal cortex act like strict utilitarians. Psychopaths also show virtually no compassion or empathy for others, and are capable of great harm to others as a result.
Bottom line: I think we agree that cost-benefit analyses and compassionate/empathetic concerns are integral parts of the moral judgment process. When we exclude either, we make bad judgments that too often have led to atrocities.
There are situations, both as relates to economics and instances where less analytical data is available, where rational judgment goes out the window. Some people can be presented with cost analyses and reports and expert opinions and still go with their gut.
Many amazing business decisions are made by unique individuals that certainly look at data and then go forward to sucess that other business owners could be produced in pill form. I am sure that a scientific profile could be made of these people to explain at least individually what makes them so different or special. One example: A story and then the example of moral and rational (or combined really).
I live outside Seattle. Drive near the city and the air is filled with the smell of coffee. There are coffee stands in every block and some in between at kiosks or stands. This was not Seattle once.
I was at a meeting of some Seattle entrepreneurs and venture capitalists about a year ago and a gentleman told a story about how he and several of his friends were sitting around and one man ran an idea past them. He was thinking of starting up a business with coffees from all over the world and in various styles and forms. He would have to charge $3.00 or $4.00 for these drinks. He thought he could get that because of the uniqueness of the product.
Everyone at the table told him the idea would never fly!!! No one would pay that much for a simple cup of coffee they could get everywhere for $.75. But the guy started Starbucks anyway!! The gentleman that was speaking sort of laughed and said that was just how it happened. This guy probably saw reports and cost benefit analyses and had advisors (like his friends above) that thought he was nuts!!! (Not to say that he failed to get the facts that sold him on the idea in the first place).
He does not buy all his coffee from countries that have poor working conditions; he does buy a percentage. Some of the best coffee is avaiable where the working conditions ar very bad. He also contributes a small amount of the money made on his bottled water to ecological projects. This makes him feel good and look like he is trying to do the right thing. So he made a rational decision to make a compassionate decision. I have heard in various business circles that he did take a loss, although not a significant one, when he decided to get some of his coffee blends from countries where the working conditions were better and the varieties available.
Much of this discussion is cerebral and I admit I am not blessed with any scientific credentials, although I have read Hume and Locke and Kant a long time ago. (There is no way I am ever going to tell a friend that her outfit sucks and she looks terrible in it, even if I am lying through my teeth!) However, I know that science cannot always see how individuals make their decisions. It is true that if an individual and his/her background was studied then it is probable that predictions could be made of their future actions (barring cataclysmic events that change personalities). And of course group experiments have been made. But for everyone on the street, not so much.
In another book club I belong to a gentleman is reading that one in every one-hundred individuals is a psychopath. From the news and books, seems like a lot more. And haven't we come a long way from when everyone just said these people were nuts, shrugged their shoulders and locked them in asylums? But here is the moral dilemma. Once science is able to identify these individuals to a certainty say in the womb, or in childhood, what will society's decision be? What action will be taken; what laws written? I have heard and read that there is no science that would cure psychopaths of sociopaths. There is just something missing that is present in the majority of people as denisecummins notes in one of her posts. So treatment is not an option. Some of the drastic measures like locking them up forever or lobotomies? What would be a decision based solely on rational thinking?
Scary stuff!!!
I have friends who work for Child Protection Services. Most of them have at least a Masters in Counseling. Some of the younger ones have taken courses to help them understand what data is available to help them make decisions. But sometimes they can use all of this knowledge and still make the wrong decision. Often the wrong decision is to leave a child with a parent (or parents) that are not fit. They have used both reason and compassion to make their decisions. Of course they recognize that there are scientific facts that say some of these decisions will be wrong. But the consequences!!!
In Washington State there was an experiment a few years ago. For repeat sex offenders, a section of a prison was created. There would be no release. Science told officials that most offenders repeated and the state was just tired of this eventuality. That is oversimplifying the entire scenario, but this experiment was shut down. I have my viewpoints based a bit on the science, but mostly on compassion. But it was determined that these individuals have human rights and should serve no longer than their sentences. The main reason it was put in place was that the laws could not change, or not fast enough, to make the punishment fit the crime.
It is possible that denisecummins was even involved in writing some of the studies that were used by these people above to make some of their decisions. Sounds like she has published quite a bit of material on relevant subjects that would apply.
But basically we can quote so many different generations of thinkers who differ on which strategy is most worthwhile, or the consequences of each approach. They may or may not have been brilliant for their times. They could only base their writings on what they could see so far in time. I see their material as historical references, just as I do the writings of Aristotle. And as history has a habit of repeating itself, the relative merit of this material has to be matched with the today.
I cannot imagine what future thinkers will see in the work being done today!!