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Re: Have Gravity Waves really been discovered yet?
Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:28 pm
by ant
Yourr missing the point.
The discovery was formalized under conditions that were not verifiable at the time.
Nor is there any way to replicate the findings of LiGO.
Where does it say the same conditions will exist and enable replication?
You are claiming to understand something you simply dont.
I dont doubt there's plans underway to attempt a repeat.
Can you answer each my questions I outlined above or are you just going to paste the same crap over and over that there's ongoing confirmation underway?
Re: Have Gravity Waves really been discovered yet?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 7:25 am
by LanDroid
ant wrote:...there's nothing planned to independently replicate and confirm what these '1000 scientists' have declared.
Wait, are you claiming unless there are multiple instruments immediately available to verify the exact signal that was originally detected, that experiment can't be replicated? Are you claiming no one is reviewing the original research and checking for errors? Ongoing upgrades with increased sensitivity to find other instances are "crap"? WTF?
I dont doubt there's plans underway to attempt a repeat.
OK good. That's the point, in contrast to the previous statement you agree there are indeed plans to replicate and confirm that gravity waves exist. There is a broad range of bandwidths to explore.
Nor is there any way to replicate the findings of LiGO.
You just agreed there are multiple system improvements in the works to explore those findings and expand the search parameters.
Where does it say the same conditions will exist and enable replication?
Identical conditions are not necessarily required. New systems may find those original conditions as well as others that generate gravity waves. Or not, we'll see...
Re: Have Gravity Waves really been discovered yet?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 8:20 am
by ant
Rochester Institute of Technology researchers continue exploring gravitational waves in a series of upcoming papers. Their reports follow the first direct detection of these waves, predicted by Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity.
RIT's Center for Computational Gravitation and Relativity were co-authors on the discovery publication. They are John Whelan, associate professor in RIT's School of Mathematical Sciences and principal investigator of RIT's group in the LIGO Scientific Collaboration
http://m.phys.org/news/2016-02-discover ... ional.html
Interesting article about the LIGO discovery that Landroid linked to prove me wrong.
Unfortunately, he doesnt understand the scientific method and did not read all that I wrote:
This is not an independent attempt at verification, really.
The upcoming papers from RIT will be examining implications of tbe discovery. This isnt a group that will attempt verification for confirmation.
Also, one of the RIT authors is from the LIGOS group.
Just trying to be fair here. Landroid is having trouble understanding what the purpose is repeating tests for verification and confirmation. These series of papers will discuss "what should happen now" predictions. It's interesting but does not take away anything from a couple of my primary points.
I never said gravity waves were not detected. I said based on what Ive read from the article in Nature mag, as it's described, the conditions were somewhat curious and that the discovery is a first that has not been to my knowledge repeated for verification (along with a few other comments)
Landroid is too anxious to defend the honor of science.
Next thing you know he'll call me a gravity wave denier.
Re: Have Gravity Waves really been discovered yet?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 8:38 am
by ant
LanDroid wrote:ant wrote:Your article linked and quoted even states LIGO is the first. You can read, right? This is a first by LIGO not a confirmation of a previous detection like LIGOS.
Your reading skills are poor, maybe you need to slow down. You stated "there's
nothing planned to independently replicate and confirm what these '1000 scientists' have declared." In refuting that point, I linked to several instances of ongoing/continuing research with more sensitive instruments to replicate and confirm and perhaps expand the original findings. You merely re-state the original finding.
In addition to my previous post, here are several more gravity wave research projects in the works and an explanation for why they are needed.
Researchers are now
planning and building a next generation of even bigger and more isolated detectors deep beneath the ground where hundreds of meters of overlying rock shield against most anthropogenic noises and seismic stresses. In the Kamioka mine in Japan, the Kamioka Gravitational Wave Detector (KAGRA) is
already taking shape as workers
construct twin sets of three-kilometer arms in
newly bored tunnels. Slated to enter operation in 2018, KAGRA will use cryogenically cooled mirrors of sapphire to deliver LIGO-like sensitivity.
After KAGRA, a consortium of European partners is
forming tentative plans for an even more ambitious subterranean laser interferometer, the Einstein Telescope, which could come online in the late 2020s at a cost of $1 billion or $2 billion.
...“
People wonder why we are not content with one gravitational-wave detector, why we wish to build bigger ones,” says Harald Lück, a physicist at the Max Planck Institute for Gravitational Physics in Hannover, Germany who is a member of the GEO600 and Einstein Telescope teams. “
Like electromagnetic radiation, gravitational waves cover an incredibly large range of wavelengths, and you can’t catch all of them with any single facility.”
2/12/16
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... astronomy/
Okay fine. Nothing planned to my knowledge at the time. Now youve found an article that discusses plans to build more detectors.
My comment wasnt made to imply some conspiracy in place to not make any attempts at future verification. One of my points ALSO was that other detectors were not operating at the time to confirm the LIGOS discovery with its own data set.
Thats one of several things i said.
Look, you dont understand the deep science behind this and neither do I.
I read an article from Nature mag and asked some questions about it that are fair.
You went hunting for some type of confirmation of the theory and found a couple of articles that talked about discussing the IMPLICATIONS of the discovery and plans to build more detectors in the distant FUTURE.
Youre trying to hard and in the process fumbling around.
Youve found a gravity wave denier! Off to the gallows with the denier!!
Re: Have Gravity Waves really been discovered yet?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 9:07 am
by LanDroid
ant wrote:Okay fine. Nothing planned to my knowledge at the time. Now youve found an article that discusses plans to build more detectors. My comment wasnt made to imply some conspiracy in place to not make any attempts at future verification.
I was addressing only one point: your claim that nothing was planned regarding replication. Looks like we're in agreement on that now.
(BTW one facility is coming on line in 2018 and I think some upgrades before then, not the distant future.)
I wasn't addressing any other points. Your skepticism may be valid - I doubt it - but as you say no one at BT is an expert.
Dunno why you keep insisting on putting words in other people's mouths - I didn't claim you're a "denier" and didn't intend to.
Re: Have Gravity Waves really been discovered yet?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 10:38 am
by ant
Why do you doubt my skepticism is valid? On what basis?
It's unwarranted because ____________________
Re: Have Gravity Waves really been discovered yet?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 3:17 pm
by DB Roy
How long are you going to argue with him, folks? He's going to drag this out as long as you let him and you let him by bothering to engage him. This horse was beat to death months ago.
Re: Have Gravity Waves really been discovered yet?
Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 4:07 pm
by ant
DB Roy wrote:How long are you going to argue with him, folks? He's going to drag this out as long as you let him and you let him by bothering to engage him. This horse was beat to death months ago.
Like a little snowflake Lib, you want and insist on a safe space for you to talk and hear only people tbat agree with you.
Guess what? Your safe space doesnt exist, you fragile little snowflake.
Go back to your fallacious mytherism cult.
Re: Have Gravity Waves really been discovered yet?
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:54 am
by LanDroid
Gravitational Waves From Colliding Black Holes Shake Scientists' Detectors Again
Scientists announced Wednesday that they have once again detected ripples in space and time from two black holes colliding far away in the universe. The discovery comes just months after the first-ever detection of such "gravitational waves," and it suggests that smaller-sized black holes might be more numerous than many had thought.
"It looks like there are going to be more of these black holes out there than we imagined," says David Reitze, the executive director of the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO), which recorded the latest rattle on Dec. 26, 2015.
6/15/16
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... tors-again
Re: Have Gravity Waves really been discovered yet?
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:09 am
by CindyAuthor
It's highly theoretical but we are seeing evidence of it more and more.