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Re: Flat Earthers

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:48 am
by Robert Tulip
LevV wrote:Hey Robert, how about posting a video or at least an audio clip of you singing the song. I'd love to sing it to a couple of friends who support other crazy conspiracy theories.
Thanks very much Lev and Chris. Here is a basic video of me singing this song and playing guitar.

https://youtu.be/zGZhEJ6bO-I

Re: Flat Earthers

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:07 am
by LevV
Thanks for doing this, Robert. Great job. Once again, showing us more of your skills and talent!

Re: Flat Earthers

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:17 am
by Robert Tulip
LevV wrote:Thanks for doing this, Robert. Great job. Once again, showing us more of your skills and talent!
The point of this song is to reflect on how our immediate sense perception supports flat earth theory, together with geocentric concepts like sunrise and sunset, and how the flat continental plane of Australia seems immense when you are in the middle of it. I also have an ironic dig at the old idea that people living at the antipodes must either walk on their heads or be at risk of falling off the planet like people hanging onto a ceiling.

A consequence of the Scientific Enlightenment was the denigration of this whole incorrect naive perspective. The great scientist Carl Sagan explained as the Pale Blue Dot the realisation that when our planet was photographed by the Voyager spacecraft from the other side of Saturn, humanity seems insignificant in the overall scheme of things. Sagan said "Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light."

When I wrote this song, I was exploring the idea that human existence is the only thing of significance, since significance only has meaning in relation to human goals. Until modern times, our normal family and tribal interactions with each other happened inside our visual horizon, for which the earth seems to be a flat disk, despite fancy pants observations of ships gradually sinking below the horizon. So flat earth thinking somehow validates normal experience.

Understanding the scientific realities that the earth is a globe, that it orbits the sun, and that the galaxy sits within the immensity of the cosmos, require an intellectual theory that stands in a strong and usually unrecognised psychological tension with normal everyday experience.

Irrational religious beliefs arise partly from this revolt of the normal, a sense that moral relationships require a comprehensible controlled cosmos in which our lives are at the focus. The solidity of a predictable flat earth beneath our feet seems to provide an emotional guarantee of stable order, within an enchanted universe run by God. Science has taken away that sense of magic, but in doing so has often also taken away a simple sense of meaning and purpose in life.

Re: Flat Earthers

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:17 pm
by Robert Tulip
brian douglas wrote:That is just plain silly... Everyone knows the world isn't flat, but actually a disc balanced upon four elephants which in turn stand upon the shell of The Great A'Tuin.
Geesh...
Hi Brian. What makes you think the Disc World is not flat in Terry Pratchett's cosmology?

My view is that the turtle he describes at the bottom of the universe was originally based on observation of the Large Magellanic Cloud from southern India. From their latitude the LMC appears as a large round blob on the southern horizon, about 400 times the size of the moon.

This imaginary turtle can meaningfully be depicted as sitting at the bottom of the universe, since it is actually at the south pole of the sun, and the south celestial pole rotates around it every 25771 years. My view is that the ancient Indian astronomers accurately worked out this observation of the apparent slow motion of the south pole around the turtle at the bottom of the universe, based solely on visual astronomy conducted over a very long time.

Re: Flat Earthers

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:50 am
by brian douglas
Robert Tulip wrote:Hi Brian. What makes you think the Disc World is not flat in Terry Pratchett's cosmology?
.

The Discworld... in reality is round, but due to the high concentrations of magic that is now native to the Discworld and certain activities within the Unseen University have compressed the round world into a disc... and may or may not have borne into being 3 elephants for rotational support... and maybe a giant self-aware turtle to bear the weight.

So to speak...

Re: Flat Earthers

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:21 pm
by threeyzmonkeys
A little late to this discussion. Sorry. We have a science teacher at my school who believes the Earth is flat and appears to be teaching it in his classes. We have had numerous phonecalls from the parents. He actually asked, "What? I'm not allowed to teach the truth?" I believe he should be forced to turn in his science teacher license.
Of all the conspiracy theories, and there are a lot, this has to be the easiest one to disprove and the one that makes the least sense.

Re: Flat Earthers

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 6:45 am
by LanDroid
Ask him to climb Mt. Fuji with a telescope, look for Pikes Peak or Mt. McKinley, and report results. :P

Re: Flat Earthers

Posted: Tue May 02, 2023 9:06 am
by Chris OConnor
threeyzmonkeys wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:21 pm A little late to this discussion. Sorry. We have a science teacher at my school who believes the Earth is flat and appears to be teaching it in his classes. We have had numerous phonecalls from the parents. He actually asked, "What? I'm not allowed to teach the truth?" I believe he should be forced to turn in his science teacher license.
Of all the conspiracy theories, and there are a lot, this has to be the easiest one to disprove and the one that makes the least sense.
That's insane. I totally agree. He should be fired immediately. Just imagine what other nonsense this teacher believes if he believes the Earth is flat.

This is a form of child abuse. He's literally doing potentially long-term damage to these impressionable children. When we're young, our brains are like sponges, and, like a sponge, our brains absorb true or untrue information, just like clean or dirty water. Whatever a sponge gets near gets absorbed. So these kids are sucking in this nonsense, and now someone is going to have to figure out a way to undo the damage. Hopefully this makes sense. I'm on my first cup of morning coffee and half asleep.

Re: Flat Earthers

Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 2:05 pm
by Shawn.B
I'm super late to this and the video is down but I can a least generalize about this. Yeah I never understood the flat earth thing. If its a conspiracy than what exactly is the end goal for that conspiracy? Who would gain anything from it? Given what we know about how gravity works how would a flat earth even work exactly? I just don't buy it. At least with the moon landing conspiracy it was to make sure the US laid claim to landing on the moon first even if they had to fake it to do so. At least with that one I could meet people half way on even if I don't think its true.

Re: Flat Earthers

Posted: Sun May 14, 2023 12:01 pm
by geo
Shawn.B wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 2:05 pm If its a conspiracy than what exactly is the end goal for that conspiracy?
This is an interesting question. Is flat earth belief a conspiracy theory? I’d say, yes, absolutely. Borrowing this definition from Merriam-Webster:
conspiracy theory : a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators
the conspiracy theories surrounding Kennedy's assassination
also : a theory asserting that a secret of great importance is being kept from the public
See second definition especially. It alludes to a psychological component: the need to belong to a group and to feel important. So, flat earth believers, like believers of any conspiracy, believe they know something the rest of us sheeple are too stupid to see. This need to feel superior is fed by confirmation bias and “motivated reasoning.” People can believe almost anything if they want to believe it. Facts and evidence be damned.