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Re: Cool visualization of human evolution

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:04 pm
by ant
What is the definition of "natural selection"?

The most advantageous traits survive in the environment.

What is so profoundly scientific about the above statement that is an ohvious truism?

Re: Cool visualization of human evolution

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:12 pm
by geo
ant wrote:
geo wrote:
ant wrote:I didnt see at which point self awareness arose?
I doubt there was a single point of self awareness, but if there was it would have happened long before homo sapiens arrived on the scene. Since many animals are self aware to varying degrees, including the apes, it would make sense that self awareness came about in degrees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness
We dont know, it just happened in degrees, huh?
If other animals have self awareness, it suggests an emergent quality of natural selection that helps survival. Do you agree or disagree? Do you have an opinion?

Re: Cool visualization of human evolution

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:42 pm
by ant
Self awareness emerged because it helps survival.

Okay.. how does it emerge?

How does the environment produce self awareness?
TOE to my knowledge does not prove that the environment inevitably produces consciousness.
Does it?

I cant formulate an opinion because I dont know the answer.
You are suggesting something grand here.

Is this where we point to ourselves and say we are proof of our hypothesis?

Ps.

Ants are incredibly great at survival without self awareness.

Re: Cool visualization of human evolution

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:54 pm
by Flann 5
Interbane wrote:Quote:
Many paleontologists don't accept the incompleteness of the fossil record argument.




What are you talking about Flann? Fossilization is a rare process. That's a fact, not an argument.
I didn't say the record was complete as obviously not everything is fossilized. Many paleontologists think the record is representative and that what is there is not Darwinian gradualism.
It's often said that a reason for gaps is that soft bodied creatures don't fossilize as well as hard bodied ones. That's true but nevertheless,Stephen Jay Gould and paleontologist Simon Conway Morris have pointed out that "the majority of Cambrian explosion fossils are soft bodied."
It's not a good explanation for the glaring wholesale lack of intermediates between pre-and Cambrian fossils.
http://www.discovery.org/f/119

Re: Cool visualization of human evolution

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:01 pm
by Dexter
ant wrote: TOE to my knowledge does not prove that the environment inevitably produces consciousness.
Does it?.
I'd be surprised if anyone on Earth has ever made that claim.

You seem to be arguing against no one.

Re: Cool visualization of human evolution

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:04 pm
by ant
Dexter wrote:
ant wrote: TOE to my knowledge does not prove that the environment inevitably produces consciousness.
Does it?.
I'd be surprised if anyone on Earth has ever made that claim.

You seem to be arguing against no one.
What claim did I make?
I said that TOE, as far as I know, doesnt explain consciousness.
Then I asked Geo if he thinks or knows if it does.

Learn to read, Strawman.

Re: Cool visualization of human evolution

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:12 pm
by Dexter
ant wrote: What claim did I make?
I said that TOE, as far as I know, doesnt explain consciousness.
Then I asked Geo if he thinks or knows if it does.

Learn to read, Strawman.
You're the one having trouble here. I didn't say you made a claim, the answer to your inquiry is that no one has ever made that claim.

In your vague quasi-skepticism about evolution, you seem to consistently misunderstand what claims scientists have made about it.

Re: Cool visualization of human evolution

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:26 pm
by ant
Dexter wrote:
ant wrote: What claim did I make?
I said that TOE, as far as I know, doesnt explain consciousness.
Then I asked Geo if he thinks or knows if it does.

Learn to read, Strawman.
You're the one having trouble here. I didn't say you made a claim, the answer to your inquiry is that no one has ever made that claim.

In your vague quasi-skepticism about evolution, you seem to consistently misunderstand what claims scientists have made about it.
I didnt say anyone here ever made that claim either. Duh.

I guess TOE cant explain consciousness even though its alleged to be a product of the environment.
But TOE would want to explain the evolution of consciousness. "Its emergent" isnt quite satisfying.
Kinda like a vague "the environment magically dun it" huh?
You satisfied with that?
Does the awe and wonder of that explanation make you feel spiritually connected with the dumb environment?

Re: Cool visualization of human evolution

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:45 pm
by Dexter
ant wrote:
I didnt say anyone here ever made that claim either. Duh.
I never said you did, you're trying to weasel your way out again.

Do you know how I'm so confident that NO ONE HAS EVER made a claim about TOE explaining consciousness? Because an 8th grade introduction to evolution would be enough to know that is beyond the scope of the theory. But you didn't seem to know that.
I guess TOE cant explain consciousness even though its alleged to be a product of the environment.
I guess not. You sure smacked it down and put it in its place.

But do you believe humans evolved or not?

Re: Cool visualization of human evolution

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:55 pm
by ant
I never said you made a claim that TOE explains consciousness. Now yourr wanting to argue that I did.
You have another strawman to protect your deep psychological need for blind and dumb nature.