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New light shed on origins of consciousness

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ant

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New light shed on origins of consciousness

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http://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2015-03 ... sness.html

The research suggests that consciousness is likely a product of this widespread communication, and that we can only report things that we have seen once they are being represented in the brain in this manner. Thus, no one part of the brain is truly the "seat of the soul," as René Descartes once wrote in a hypothesis about the pineal gland, but rather, consciousness appears to be an emergent property of how information that needs to be acted upon gets propagated throughout the brain
Translation: consciousness is everywhere, like a network. Not in a pineal gland like Descartes said.

Anyone else think this is an anticlimactic scientific conclusion?
This is new stuff??
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DWill

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Re: New light shed on origins of consciousness

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ant wrote:http://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2015-03 ... sness.html

The research suggests that consciousness is likely a product of this widespread communication, and that we can only report things that we have seen once they are being represented in the brain in this manner. Thus, no one part of the brain is truly the "seat of the soul," as René Descartes once wrote in a hypothesis about the pineal gland, but rather, consciousness appears to be an emergent property of how information that needs to be acted upon gets propagated throughout the brain
Translation: consciousness is everywhere, like a network. Not in a pineal gland like Descartes said.

Anyone else think this is an anticlimactic scientific conclusion?
This is new stuff??
I couldn't tell you how new it is, and even if it's not new, the idea is to have many studies that might produce similar findings. But it's important, is it not, if it gives us further hints about what consciousness is?
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Re: New light shed on origins of consciousness

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I don't know that that's necessarily the conclusion that should be drawn. The scientists say consciousness is an emergent phenomenon, which we already knew. Introspection tells us that our consciousness can jump around, focusing on various things, such as old memories, sounds of music, tastes, emotions, etc. So all these inputs to our consciousness are obviously a part of it, like appendages. But this doesn't mean they are necessary parts. People who undergo lobotomies explain how they lack a certain faculty(emotion/taste/smell/sound/etc), yet we would still agree they are conscious.

What this means is that our consciousness would require a main nexus, or hub, or neural train station, of sorts. Something to serve as a central processor for all these various inputs. A lobotomy might turn off one of these inputs to the consciousness, but it still operates. This idea may have merit, as scientists have found something similar to an on/off switch for consciounsess.

http://news.discovery.com/tech/biotechn ... 140707.htm
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Re: New light shed on origins of consciousness

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The scientists say consciousness is an emergent phenomenon, which we already knew
isn't that a truism of sorts;

consciousness arises at a certain point. specifically when it does, we aren't certain yet

"emergent" doesn't really contain a whole lot of information.

but so what?
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Re: New light shed on origins of consciousness

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But it's important, is it not, if it gives us further hints about what consciousness is?
I'd agree with you if it did.

But does it?

Consciousness emerges and is more global than localized.

Descartes died in 1650. That's who's mentioned in the article.
He's been officially refuted in 2015.
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Re: New light shed on origins of consciousness

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ant wrote:Consciousness emerges and is more global than localized.

Descartes died in 1650. That's who's mentioned in the article.
He's been officially refuted in 2015.
I don't think it's official. Where is your skepticism? Did you read the article I linked above?
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Re: New light shed on origins of consciousness

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Interbane wrote:
ant wrote:Consciousness emerges and is more global than localized.

Descartes died in 1650. That's who's mentioned in the article.
He's been officially refuted in 2015.
I don't think it's official. Where is your skepticism? Did you read the article I linked above?

I don't think you can say I was being skeptical. I was simply wondering if we really are saying something when we say consciousness emerges or it is like a network. We use metaphors all the time, but they don't actually "save the phenomena" now do they?

I have not read it yet, but I will. Thanks for the link.
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Re: New light shed on origins of consciousness

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ant wrote:I don't think you can say I was being skeptical. I was simply wondering if we really are saying something when we say consciousness emerges or it is like a network. We use metaphors all the time, but they don't actually "save the phenomena" now do they?
The two aren't mutually exclusive. The emergent phenomenon can come from a network or something more local. All it means when you say that it's an emergent phenomenon is that it is supervenient on neural processes. It's a pattern of the functioning of constituent parts. Not merely the sum of the parts, but also the arrangement and operation of those parts - the pattern.
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Re: New light shed on origins of consciousness

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The two aren't mutually exclusive. The emergent phenomenon can come from a network or something more local. All it means when you say that it's an emergent phenomenon is that it is supervenient on neural processes. It's a pattern of the functioning of constituent parts. Not merely the sum of the parts, but also the arrangement and operation of those parts - the pattern.

My point is simply that claims of the explanatory power of theories are often not all what they are advertised to be.

What are/is the brute law(s) that allow the mental and physical to create consciousness?
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Re: New light shed on origins of consciousness

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My point is simply that claims of the explanatory power of theories are often not all what they are advertised to be.

What are/is the brute law(s) that allow the mental and physical to create consciousness?
What do you mean brute law? Are you asking what laws of physics the phenomenon of consciousness can be reduced to? One feature of an emergent phenomenon is that it transcends lower order laws. In a sense, it operates in a way that no lower order law could predict(at least with our feeble intellects).

So in a sense, consciousness has its own set of laws, layered on top of the laws that govern the operation of nervous systems, which are layered on top of the laws that govern basic biological systems, which are layered on top of the laws of physics. All of these layers supervene on the ones below, but to digest them wholesale is beyond our ability. Which I why we break things down into bite sized layers.

So my simple answer is I have no freaking clue. To say something is an "emergent phenomenon" is one part ignorance, one part explanation. The explanation is that the phenomenon supervenes on other systems. This isn't much as far as explanations go, but it is the best we can currently do and still be have an intellectually humble answer. It does allow us to say a few things, and offers a framework for further explanation. So it is more than mere ignorance.
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