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Richard III, genetics... and an "oops" for the Tudor Dynasty 
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Post Richard III, genetics... and an "oops" for the Tudor Dynasty
Interestingly, yesterday's Nature published the detailed outcome of the DNA testing done on the recently discovered remains of Richard III: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/14120 ... s6631.html

The good news is that it really is Richard III., but the article, among a lot of scientific details about the gene sequencing, the contributors to the study and the methodologies used to ascertain the identity of the skeleton, writes about a major other discovery, too.

Essentially, to summarise a certain set of results reported in the paper, some false parenthoods have occurred across several generations... and depending on exactly when these happened in Richard III.'s genealogic tree, a number of very notable kings and even an extremely familiar to us Tudor queen may not have had legitimate claim to the throne. :shock: The different possibilities listed in the paper, based on the DNA evidence, mean that one way or another the very (in)famous figures of English history are on very shaky ground when it comes to their bloodline and entitlement to the crown.

It doesn't matter now :lol: , but it is neverheless extremely interesting for the last Plantagenet, and for the Tudors... Imagine telling Henry VIII that, well, he is not really entitled to the throne... it would mean a very short (probably minus eight inches) haircut, unless we jumped very quickly on our time machine...


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Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:26 pm
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Post Re: Richard III, genetics... and an "oops" for the Tudor Dynasty
It seems like a lot of kings won their right to rule through war anyway. Kind of interesting that the DNA doesn't match up. It would be even more interesting to know who the DNA that would have matched them belonged to.


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Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:32 pm
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Post Re: Richard III, genetics... and an "oops" for the Tudor Dynasty
Indeed, in many ways once one is on the throne, then... rest doesn't matter :)
I just caught an interview, by accident, with the geneticist that led the study - the question came, whether they will study the other kings' remains and their descendants, as it seems there are 19 steps in the particular section of the genealogic tree... and the 2 false parenthoods would cause genetic "loss of entitlement" to the throne for a number of illustrous figures only if those breakages (maternal infidelities) in the bloodline occurred in the case of 6 of those steps. So it is probabilistic a bit at the moment, and at least in the BBC interview they evaded the answer, I guess it depends whether it is even possible to invest and round up existing relatives to zoom in on the needed information.
Even for just Richard III, it took quite an amazing "hunt" for relatives, as they tried to conclusively "triangulate" the identity from a number of people plus the remains.


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Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:41 pm
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Post Re: Richard III, genetics... and an "oops" for the Tudor Dynasty
I watched the television show (featured on our Smithsonian channel which probably came from your BBC or was produced with them) on Richard III. I love that time period in history, so I read or watch anything I can about it including the not so real stuff (Phillppa Gregory books, Cable tv's "the Tudors" and The White Queen"). Simply amazing to me that a King could be found buried under a modern day parking lot. I bet those geneticists run those tests but I doubt we will ever hear the results though. Especially if that information would change anything modern day.


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I am haunted by waters.”


Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:09 pm
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Post Re: Richard III, genetics... and an "oops" for the Tudor Dynasty
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lehelvandor wrote: Richard III, genetics... and an "oops" for the Tudor Dynasty

Interestingly, yesterday's Nature published the detailed outcome of the DNA testing done on the recently discovered remains of Richard III: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/14120 ... s6631.html

The good news is that it really is Richard III., but the article, among a lot of scientific details about the gene sequencing, the contributors to the study and the methodologies used to ascertain the identity of the skeleton, writes about a major other discovery, too.

Essentially, to summarise a certain set of results reported in the paper, some false parenthoods have occurred across several generations... and depending on exactly when these happened in Richard III.'s genealogic tree, a number of very notable kings and even an extremely familiar to us Tudor queen may not have had legitimate claim to the throne. :shock: The different possibilities listed in the paper, based on the DNA evidence, mean that one way or another the very (in)famous figures of English history are on very shaky ground when it comes to their bloodline and entitlement to the crown.

It doesn't matter now :lol: , but it is neverheless extremely interesting for the last Plantagenet, and for the Tudors... Imagine telling Henry VIII that, well, he is not really entitled to the throne... it would mean a very short (probably minus eight inches) haircut, unless we jumped very quickly on our time machine...


This is an excellent post, you certainly have a flair for presentation.



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lehelvandor
Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:25 pm
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Post Re: Richard III, genetics... and an "oops" for the Tudor Dynasty
thank you :)


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Post Re: Richard III, genetics... and an "oops" for the Tudor Dynasty
Quote:
a number of very notable kings and even an extremely familiar to us Tudor queen may not have had legitimate claim to the throne.


aint it still the truth :)

Quote:

King Arthur: I am your king.

Woman: Well, I didn't vote for you.

King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.

Woman: Well how'd you become king then?

[Angelic music plays... ]

King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.

Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony...
Dennis: Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.



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Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:39 am
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Post Re: Richard III, genetics... and an "oops" for the Tudor Dynasty
:)))) perfect!


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