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Trump Watch 
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Post Re: Trump Watch
It's not surprising how much theorizing is going on about his behavior and motives for it. When faced with the inexplicable, it's what happens. I still gravitate to the kinds of actions that he would need to have taken, which involve both close cooperation and edicts that he would have known would not play well with his base. We know he dislikes cooperating; it's why he prefers "America alone." He hates any sharing of credit as well. He could not ask of his core voters anything that would smack of weakness or fear, so brazening it out was the road he chose. His administration did do a good thing in funding vaccine development, but even in that we see the kind of grand, showy goal that he latches on to. He staked his entire presidency, really, on a vaccine emerging, rather than mitigate the damage of the disease. Now, he harbors deep resentment against the medical deep state for "withholding" the announcement of a potential vaccine until after the election.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
What does everyone think of Iran's secret nuclear program? Some of what I read suggested that Trump dropped out of the agreement back in 2018 simply to spite Obama. Then when the US left, it fueled a conservative shift in the country, which in turn lead to the current situation.

Rather than assume Trump's plan was stupid, I decided to dig into his reasoning. Then I found this, and realize we might be fucked:

Trump in 2018 on the Iran Nuclear Deal:
“Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right — who would have thought?), but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.”



How do you get Trump to change a lightbulb?

Tell him Obama installed it.


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Post Re: Trump Watch
Biden officially wins the completed sentences race in a landslide.



Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:49 pm
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Post Re: Trump Watch
Interbane wrote:
What does everyone think of Iran's secret nuclear program?
I think the more it remains secret, the better. In the days when Iran committed themselves to an aggressive policy of fomenting influence through violence, nukes represented a serious threat to world peace. But that program got them nowhere with anyone, except, by the grace of Bush, in Iraq, and I rather suspect they are now focused more on finding their way to some normalcy and modus vivendi with their neighbors. Nukes are a difficult sword to brandish, and it might be best for all of us if they just had that sense of security in their back pocket so they would not have to worry about invasion (again).

On the other hand, their leanings and ambitions could change again. These things are hardly predictable. If, at some point, they decided to be aggressive and to use nuclear weapons as an explicit threat, it could drag the world into a mess none of us wants to see.

The problem for them is that the U.S., the world's dominant power, has shown that it can shift leanings and ambitions also. Once Trump won they may have been almost relieved to have the treaty abrogated, sanctions and all, so they could go ahead with their "peaceful" program. Iran is currently run by some very messed-up people, but I am still more worried about Putin than anyone in Tehran.

Here's a question. What does the gradual decline of fossil fuel power mean for power dynamics in the Middle East? Will it make the crazies even crazier? or will they start to pay attention to more modest and accessible goals, like large-scale desalination?



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Post Re: Trump Watch
The back and forth about certifying Wayne County's election results has me feeling paranoid again. Racism in high places is extremely toxic. The Republican commissioners who objected to certification based on a more-or-less routine number of discrepancies (the New York Times explained the discrepancies as the type of thing you get when someone gets tired of waiting for their turn to vote after they have already signed in) between number of ballots and number of names counted as present. Nobody has any reason to think either that they signified some larger phenomenon going on in secret or that the number of discrepancies could conceivably overturn the state result.

But the motivated reasoning of partisanship, combined with the projections and demonizations which have been gaining momentum in America for 10 years, lead these commissioners to conclude that a familiar degree of discrepancies really represents a nefarious plot by "those people".

It seems to me that this is the force behind the record turnout for the Orange One. Tribalism generating conspiracy thinking. Refusal to credit facts if they are reported in the "Main Stream Media". The Red Team members I know are quite willing to believe that liberalism is a plot to take their money and give it to people who simply don't want to work. They are quite unwilling to believe that the fates of all Americans, and for that matter all humans, are intertwined to such a degree that refusing to support those in need and refusing to respond to slow crises are just indirect modes of self-sabotage.

And there it is - people who have been charged with maintaining the mechanisms of democracy have gone so far into tribalism that they are threatening democracy itself. God help us.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
Harry Marks wrote:

And there it is - people who have been charged with maintaining the mechanisms of democracy have gone so far into tribalism that they are threatening democracy itself. God help us.


The scariest thing is we still have 61 days left in Donald Trump's presidency, and the President seems bent on a scorched earth policy in an attempt to sabotage Biden's presidency. This is not putting party before country. It's putting ego before country. I keep hoping Republicans will finally make a stand, but we're running out of time. Damage is being done. More than half of Republicans actually believe the election was stolen from Trump. God help us indeed.


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Post Re: Trump Watch
Attachment:
How Biden Stole the election.png
How Biden Stole the election.png [ 218.15 KiB | Viewed 593 times ]


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Post Re: Trump Watch
:calmdown: : Uncle Taylor is here, I’m here to reassure you!. Too rescue you :clap: .

Read the following as stream of consciousness:

I have become attuned to the sound of spraying water.
In the actual middle of posting to this thread..there it is :cry_baby: .. the sound of spaying water!

This past summer I had to replumb my entire house. 2 copper pipes below the slab corroded. No place to go but up.. ease, finances, logic determines things to be so. This year I had a pipe break. I was woke by the sound/song of water spraying.. I was confused..What the hell is going on? ..as soon as my feet hit the floor.. I knew..My house was flooding.. Panic at 5:30 am.

It’s an eternity between realization of the specific source of the gusher and getting your hands on the water main. Instantaneous amounts of a myriad of thoughts figuratively floods the mind as the house is literally flooding.

I dealt with it. I pushed two inches of water from my house, it took about 3 hours, it took a couple more days too dry things out. For me it was a disaster.. all financed from my pocket.

To Be Clear: Donald J. Trump has got.. it seems to me.. the equivalent of Shit.. for Brains.

We are suffering trough this idea of tribal influences, (the concept of tribalism is entirely lost by those who are in fact the subjects of the descriptor) of distrust of Mainstream Media, ( as though a preponderance of Americans actually listen to, read or watch in anything resembling do diligence any media, to warrant a distrust) an almost impossible to imagine lack of understanding of the history of not just America but world history, There is zero understanding by too many people of the evolution of not just geology but biology, chemistry, mathematics, philosophy,physics, politics, economics, law, constitutions, migration, integration, emigration, revolution list the gamut ... with all that is lacking how can people understand LOVE?.

Love.. a shared.. thing.. a ‘spandrel’ ( something of a descriptor) oxygen..(descriptor) .

It is utterly mind boggling that PSfB, President Shit for Brains.. Donald J. Trump is not a shared experiencethat that is.. not only universally rejected.. but reviled as a ‘thing’ we would normally hold our nose too as we scraped it off the sole of our shoe. This narrow septum freak, this dry lipped pancake makeup wearing Nazi rehash, undoubtedly has no concern for a thing beyond chaos.

Chaos.. for the petty dictator is easy.. when you’re just a realtor it’s even easier. ( buy and sell land, buildings. buy and sell people) It’s not a good fit for a President of the United States. In fact it’s not a good fit for the leader of any country is it? . At this stage of life..the year 2020.. we know the bad leaders.. they’re the deniers..They deny democracy, they subvert democracy. For the denier..an open society is the enemy. Dissent is the enemy. A free and open election becomes a tyranny, a fraud. There is a good reason that PBS has been airing a documentary about the “Rise of the Nazis’ Nazism is not.. in reality..too far removed from the Social Darwinism of modern Libertarianism. ( there it is.. I can and will bring the comparison to the page)

PSfB is a Social Darwinist, there’s no doubt about it. Vacillators are enablers. ( no doubts there) I am not willing nor will I accept a “lesser of evils’ payoff.

There has to be acceptance that the path traveled these past four decades has culminated in the abomination of President Shit for Brains. (Donald J. Trump). PSfB and his crew are clearly/stupidly following the path that was trodden by the ghastly monsters who made their mark in Germany as early as 1933.

What “Rudy” Giuliani and company are doing to this country can only be equated too what history recorded from the third decade of the 20th century. America’s mayor.. becomes a Goering type. A freakish, propagandist. A Liar for Libertarianism. A propagandist for Social Darwinism. Giuliani is assaulting America, He is insulting Americans. He has decided that gaslighting good people for his personal preferences is a deal/opportunity not to be ignored. This current White House is selling out Democracy for a few gold coins.. and their MAGA, banner waving numb tards..”truths go marching on” followers. Giuliani's press conference was a weirdness emphasized by his hair dye dripping down his cheeks. The Daily Shows Trevor Noah joked that it was as though Giulianis’ “brain was Shitting”.

I’m attuned to the sound of spraying water. While..just this evening..preparing a measly frozen pizza for dinner. (Of which I consumed a third) There was the sound of spraying water.. Oh My.. my brain shouts.. the sound of ‘spraying water’. My actions are instantaneous but in my mind a thousand years have passed. A fitting on my toilet decided that dinner time on a Friday night.. while I am reading forums and news.. tuning into the latest horror was the time to split.. water is spraying to the ceiling and pouring down everywhere..I hate this shit show.

I’ve stopped the leak.. I’ve dried the puddles.. I ate 2 more slices.. drank just one tall boy beer...OKAY maybe 2 more than 1.. Its Friday.. This week I’ve put out fires on the job.. Fires at home. A couple beers are not going to fix PSfB, A couple beers aren’t going to fix the historical road America/the World seems to want to travel.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
Good stream, Taylor. Disgust, absolute disgust, is the rational reaction to what our soon-to-be former PSfB is trying to do.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
@DWill: You have to know.. The fact that you personally backed me on my previous post means more than can be imagined. Thanks. I can tell you and yours are good people.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
Taylor wrote:
@DWill: You have to know.. The fact that you personally backed me on my previous post means more than can be imagined. Thanks. I can tell you and yours are good people.

Taylor, et al.,

I also feel like I'm in the company of good people. Thanks for being there!


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Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:46 pm
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Post Re: Trump Watch
Don Trump is now Don Quixote, tilting at windmills of fraud even after doing what all the world--but not he!--views as conceding.



Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:37 am
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Post Re: Trump Watch
Counting down the days until the retirement of the "Trump Watch" thread. It's about 45 days until Biden is sworn in. I hope there will be no interest in, or reason for, watching this disaster of a human being after he joins the ex-presidents club. Opinions differ as to whether he will fade from public view, as his legal concerns entangle him or perhaps his "loser" status finally sinks in with his followers. One thing that seems clear is that Trumpism will have a longer life, so Trump will certainly leave a legacy. You can see by their recent remarks that the leading Republican challengers--Rubio and Cruz-- have learned at the feet of Trump.

We all knew how Trump was likely to act if he lost, but seeing that play out still shocks and amazes. The worst aspect for me of this attack on democracy is that the country was due a big shot of confidence in itself, and this was delivered in the form of an election carried out superbly well in the most difficult of circumstances. The leader of the country has done his very best to turn this victory for us all into a cesspool of fraud and corruption, and for millions of people, he succeeded. They believe him. As usual, he takes the very crime he's committing and turns it around. He postures as the defender of democracy as he acts to destroy it.



Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:06 am
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Post Re: Trump Watch
DWill wrote:
One thing that seems clear is that Trumpism will have a longer life, so Trump will certainly leave a legacy.


I'm increasingly concerned that Trump is a symptom of an underlying disease that isn't getting any better. We select and deselect where our information comes from amidst the ocean of sources, and that fuels an alternate universe. It isn't necessarily a conscious choice on what sources we let in either; all it takes is a temporary indifference to controlling our biases. The seed grows each time.

I truly don't think half the population is stupid. I don't think they're being intentionally misled in most cases(intentional being the operative word). I think the problem with belief is systemic, but not controlled by any sort of agency.

Part of the issue is along the lines of Haidt's ideas - where our foundational values affect what we tend to believe on the political spectrum. Another part of the issue is the media algorithms that feed us news, and reinforce those beliefs.


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Post Re: Trump Watch
Interbane wrote:
I truly don't think half the population is stupid. I don't think they're being intentionally misled in most cases(intentional being the operative word). I think the problem with belief is systemic, but not controlled by any sort of agency.

Part of the issue is along the lines of Haidt's ideas - where our foundational values affect what we tend to believe on the political spectrum. Another part of the issue is the media algorithms that feed us news, and reinforce those beliefs.


Well, okay, but a lot of cherry-picking goes on by the likes of the Fox News commentators, leaving aside Breitbart and the new crop of news sources trying to outflank Fox, such as One America News. We know that Breitbart was spearheaded by Steve Bannon, who has shown his true colors as a scammer. Sure, he believes conservative stuff, but just as a law firm puts their top priority on winning the case, so the AltRight puts their top priority on generating heated feelings from their followers. Did Alex Jones intentionally mislead people? Of course. Of course he did. And still does. All he has to do is put forward the theories that he wishes were true, and, like Trump, filter mildly for surface credibility (and the more riled up they can get people, the less attention needs to be paid to credibility).

In the interest of even-handedness, MSNBC and HuffPost also work more on generating anger than on getting the perspective right, but they have not, so far, gone into the unprofessional business of spreading falsehood, as, say, Laura Ingraham and Tucker Carlson most certainly have. Motivated reasoning crosses the line into motivated belief pretty easily, and the unprofessional press feels no burden to admit the errors they have made in that pursuit, thus freeing them from the constraints that might stop a more mainstream outfit from spreading lies.

Interbane wrote:
I'm increasingly concerned that Trump is a symptom of an underlying disease that isn't getting any better. We select and deselect where our information comes from amidst the ocean of sources, and that fuels an alternate universe. It isn't necessarily a conscious choice on what sources we let in either; all it takes is a temporary indifference to controlling our biases. The seed grows each time.


I actually came to this thread to push in the opposite direction. Some of my conservative friends on Facebook spent quite a bit of time listening to the hearings on election irregularities in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia and maybe Wisconsin. Now, I learned about this from correcting one of many ginned up scandals that get spread on social media. (A source "discovered" that tens and even hundreds of thousands of voters had submitted change of address forms but continued to vote in the states they had left. Sounds like a scandal, right? I did it for decades, completely legally. If you move abroad, you are supposed to vote in the state you last resided in. I pointed this out, but did the posting person take it down? Of course not.)

What irritates me is that these hearings, held by state legislatures in the relevant states, were highly publicized on right wing media, but not mentioned by the New York Times, and, as far as I can tell, by CNN either.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... fraud.html
A lot of similar stuff, e.g. in Pennsylvania some Republicans-only "hearings" at Gettysburg, are ginned up just to rile people up and are untethered to reality, but if you listen through the Michigan hearings you can tell there really were irregularities.

I'm glad the mainstream media don't swallow all the swill put out by, for example, Rudy Giuliani, and instead check out the facts first. But I fear they are being too cautious (or just biased) and refusing to give any publicity to more serious election stories. I would love to have those things exposed as fake, as many accusations have, but it looks to me like they are sitting on real stories for fear of undermining the credibility of Biden's win. Sorry, but that is just the kind of bias and self-censorship that drives people into the arms of the hatemongers.

So when we underline the motivated reasoning that leads people to accept swill (like the story about out-of-state voters who continue to vote), lets not forget the grain of truth in the accusations of bias, which grows into people giving themselves permission to believe that tripe.



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