Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:33 pm





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 227 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 ... 16  Next
Trump Watch 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Platinum Contributor
Book Discussion Leader

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6729
Location: Luray, Virginia
Thanks: 2062
Thanked: 2310 times in 1744 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump Watch
ant wrote:
Here's a Trump Watch item for today:


Quote:
"This historic diplomatic breakthrough will advance peace in the Middle East region and is a testament to the bold diplomacy and vision of the three leaders and the courage of the United Arab Emirates and Israel to chart a new path that will unlock the great potential in the region," the statement said.



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/is ... r-BB17VscX



(bad Trump.. bad)

Consistent with the whole Trump/Kushner M.E. strategy, though. It's quite a coup, as well, and may help boost Trump before the election. Biggest question: will Netanyahu in the end back down from annexation? That would make this deal one of the most significant in memory.



Last edited by DWill on Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:22 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Read Shakespeare before it was cool


Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1638
Thanks: 1846
Thanked: 834 times in 671 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Trump Watch
DWill wrote:
Consistent with the whole Trump/Kushner M.E. strategy, though.
Yes. You can even make a case that the Trump initiative of moving the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv was a signal to the Middle East that the U.S. no longer had any interest in holding back Israel's territorial ambitions, and thus gave a carrot to the Emirates who wanted an excuse to normalize relations. (Apparently the commercial ties have been growing rapidly, as Israel has a huge tech industry and the UAE has money to invest, not necessarily its own.) I've managed to read a few analyses already, and I thought that was a particularly insightful one.
DWill wrote:
It's quite a coup, as well, and may help boost Trump before the election.
Maybe, although Florida is the only swing state with enough voters who care about the Mideast. Conceivably Ohio.
DWill wrote:
Biggest question: will Netanyahu in the end back down from annexation? That would make this deal one of the most significant in memory.
One pundit has it that Netanyahu will move forward with annexation (it had a July deadline, originally) if Trump is re-elected. Ironically, it may take both a good cop and a bad cop to get Bibi to stand down from that rash promise. I leave it to others to decide who is the good cop and who is the bad cop.



Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:42 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Platinum Contributor
Book Discussion Leader

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6729
Location: Luray, Virginia
Thanks: 2062
Thanked: 2310 times in 1744 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump Watch
Our Mr. ant--what did he mean by his post? I chose to take him at his word and disagree, giving Trump credit for this. Maybe ant really does think the deal is bad, who knows? The deal does leave the Palestinians in their same plight.



Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:13 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Platinum Contributor
Book Discussion Leader

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6729
Location: Luray, Virginia
Thanks: 2062
Thanked: 2310 times in 1744 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump Watch
It's not even particularly shocking anymore to hear Trump say this. But it is shocking to think that anyone can consider voting for a person who isn't even a patriot.

"The only way we're going to lose this election is because it's rigged. Remember that."
Donald Trump on 8/16/20.



The following user would like to thank DWill for this post:
Harry Marks
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:46 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Sophomore


Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 256
Location: Tarrytown, NY, USA
Thanks: 28
Thanked: 104 times in 83 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump Watch
DWill wrote:
"The only way we're going to lose this election is because it's rigged. Remember that."
Donald Trump on 8/16/20.

That's a loathsome thing to say. Actually, just plain evil.

Donald Trump is implicitly stating that he doesn't believe in a republican form of government, and that voting is irrelevant. "If I win, that's correct. If I lose, the election was rigged!" Dude, that's like African 3rd world dictator level shit.

Here's the relevant video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X2hJtcEWzY



The following user would like to thank Murmur for this post:
Harry Marks, Robert Tulip
Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:09 pm
Profile Email
Almost Comfortable


Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Trump Watch
I'm already so tired of everything that is happening in the world, my head is spinning. I try to be distracted by self-development, Volikov's test, yoga and sports ...



Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:09 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor
Book Discussion Leader

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5994
Location: Canberra
Thanks: 2421
Thanked: 2356 times in 1782 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Australia (au)

Post Re: Trump Watch
Murmur wrote:
DWill wrote:
"The only way we're going to lose this election is because it's rigged. Remember that." Donald Trump on 8/16/20.
That's a loathsome thing to say. Actually, just plain evil. Donald Trump is implicitly stating that he doesn't believe in a republican form of government, and that voting is irrelevant. "If I win, that's correct. If I lose, the election was rigged!" Dude, that's like African 3rd world dictator level shit. Here's the relevant video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X2hJtcEWzY


I like to compare the politics of the USA today with the transition from Republic to Empire in ancient Rome in the first and second centuries BC. An empire is structurally a military dictatorship. Trump is saying that the interests of the American Empire are those of the very rich.

Democracy is only acceptable for the Empire State view as long as it elects Trump. The ability to trick people to vote against their interests can only deliver that result for a short period, which is likely coming to an end this year. So I would not be surprised to see a future Pinochet/Allende dynamic emerge in the USA, as the majority come to support a polity that is perceived to conflict with the interests of the plutocrat class. Then the option of military coup comes into play. Military dictators on the model of the ancient Roman leaders Sulla, Marius, Caesar, Pompey, Crassus and Augustus will emerge to provide a veneer of legitimacy for a system similar to what we see now in Russia and China.


_________________
http://rtulip.net


Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:58 am
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5929
Thanks: 1380
Thanked: 973 times in 838 posts
Gender: None specified
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump Watch
Robert Tulip wrote:
Murmur wrote:
DWill wrote:
"The only way we're going to lose this election is because it's rigged. Remember that." Donald Trump on 8/16/20.
That's a loathsome thing to say. Actually, just plain evil. Donald Trump is implicitly stating that he doesn't believe in a republican form of government, and that voting is irrelevant. "If I win, that's correct. If I lose, the election was rigged!" Dude, that's like African 3rd world dictator level shit. Here's the relevant video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X2hJtcEWzY


I like to compare the politics of the USA today with the transition from Republic to Empire in ancient Rome in the first and second centuries BC. An empire is structurally a military dictatorship. Trump is saying that the interests of the American Empire are those of the very rich.

Democracy is only acceptable for the Empire State view as long as it elects Trump. The ability to trick people to vote against their interests can only deliver that result for a short period, which is likely coming to an end this year. So I would not be surprised to see a future Pinochet/Allende dynamic emerge in the USA, as the majority come to support a polity that is perceived to conflict with the interests of the plutocrat class. Then the option of military coup comes into play. Military dictators on the model of the ancient Roman leaders Sulla, Marius, Caesar, Pompey, Crassus and Augustus will emerge to provide a veneer of legitimacy for a system similar to what we see now in Russia and China.



Talking without actually knowing what it's like to live in the States.

I suppose Robert's US friends have told him we live in a near dictatorship.



Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:31 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5929
Thanks: 1380
Thanked: 973 times in 838 posts
Gender: None specified
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump Watch
Quote:
Harry wrote:

You can even make a case that the Trump initiative of moving the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv was a signal to the Middle East that the U.S. no longer had any interest in holding back Israel's territorial ambitions


This is speculative, lame, and without evidence.



On a much different note, Harry, aren't you a progressive Christian?

On your "Trump Watch" why didn't you mentioned the loss of Trump's brother recently? Or did I miss it.
You comment enough on him and his character.. Why wouldn't you, as a Christian, offer condolences for his recent loss?

We have many, many differences on this little planet we live on, but at our deepest core we all hurt and grieve nearly the same as our friends and those we might very well dislike intensely.

Where's the empathy in your religion?
Has it somehow been justifiably washed away?



Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:44 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor
Book Discussion Leader

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5994
Location: Canberra
Thanks: 2421
Thanked: 2356 times in 1782 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Australia (au)

Post Re: Trump Watch
ant wrote:
Talking without actually knowing what it's like to live in the States.

I suppose Robert's US friends have told him we live in a near dictatorship.

The point here is that Trump has signaled a possibility of rejecting the democratic process by saying the only way he could lose the election would be through fraud by his opponents. That sets up the clear prospect of promoting a mass campaign to regard a Biden government as illegitimate.

The intense polarisation of culture and politics in the USA is well known to everyone around the world. I do follow US politics fairly closely, so the implication that only people who live in America can have a reasonable view is not justified.

On the Rome timeline, the US has decades before it descends into military dictatorship, but that is the trajectory. Trump is preparing the way with baseless comments like this one about his opponents rigging elections. In fact the main rigging is by Republicans who systematically prevent Democrat supporters from voting.

Spending trillions of public money on weaponry certainly creates the conditions for a future dictatorship, in the event that a future democratically elected US government decides to confront the military-industrial complex by refusing to pay for it at the current scale.


_________________
http://rtulip.net


The following user would like to thank Robert Tulip for this post:
Murmur
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:54 pm
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Platinum Contributor
Book Discussion Leader

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6729
Location: Luray, Virginia
Thanks: 2062
Thanked: 2310 times in 1744 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump Watch
ant wrote:
On a much different note, Harry, aren't you a progressive Christian?

On your "Trump Watch" why didn't you mentioned the loss of Trump's brother recently? Or did I miss it.
You comment enough on him and his character.. Why wouldn't you, as a Christian, offer condolences for his recent loss?

We have many, many differences on this little planet we live on, but at our deepest core we all hurt and grieve nearly the same as our friends and those we might very well dislike intensely.

Where's the empathy in your religion?
Has it somehow been justifiably washed away?

That is simply uncalled for, ant. You impugned his faith based on his not making a special point of mentioning, in a thread clearly meant to talk about Trump as president, Robert Trump's death. Do you pay attention at all to what Harry Marks says on BT? I have to think that if you did you would never accuse him of a lack of empathy, and surely not on this flimsiest of pretexts.



Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:25 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Sophomore


Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 256
Location: Tarrytown, NY, USA
Thanks: 28
Thanked: 104 times in 83 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump Watch
ant wrote:
On a much different note, Harry, aren't you a progressive Christian?

On your "Trump Watch" why didn't you mentioned the loss of Trump's brother recently? Or did I miss it.
You comment enough on him and his character.. Why wouldn't you, as a Christian, offer condolences for his recent loss?

We have many, many differences on this little planet we live on, but at our deepest core we all hurt and grieve nearly the same as our friends and those we might very well dislike intensely.

Where's the empathy in your religion?
Has it somehow been justifiably washed away?

What the Hell relevance does that have to do with anything? Do you require Christians to say something every single time someone dies?



Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:37 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Read Shakespeare before it was cool


Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1638
Thanks: 1846
Thanked: 834 times in 671 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Trump Watch
ant wrote:
On your "Trump Watch" why didn't you mentioned the loss of Trump's brother recently? Or did I miss it.
You comment enough on him and his character.. Why wouldn't you, as a Christian, offer condolences for his recent loss?

We have many, many differences on this little planet we live on, but at our deepest core we all hurt and grieve nearly the same as our friends and those we might very well dislike intensely.

Where's the empathy in your religion?
Has it somehow been justifiably washed away?

To state the obvious, you did not offer condolences yourself, at least, as far as I know.

I think you are trying to make a point about the Trump Watch theme, and I will just clarify that my reason for starting it is that Trump is intentionally threatening democracy, and lots of people are cozying up to that behind a smokescreen of deflection and outright lies. So I think it is a good idea to set out in a written record the repeated attacks. A lot of Republicans want to have it both ways - the racist white flight to the suburbs is a defense of decency and civilization, and being nice is for losers. That kind of incoherence, which has been known as "staying on message" for 20 years now, at least, thrives when nobody gets the facts out to take a look at them.

I think you have made an effort to offer the same scrutiny for Biden. He has certainly stood in the schoolhouse door himself, and failed women when push came to shove. If the Republican party was offering a decent alternative, like, say, McCain or Romney, I would give serious consideration to whether I thought they were less of a problem. But I would still come out for Biden, I suspect, because I do prefer empathy over "toughness" when it comes to making our laws and our policies. Biden is a politician, and he will win or lose as one, so he doesn't go for wild-eyed theory over pragmatic accommodation. But he has the heart to know that children not getting a good education is a tragedy no matter what color they are. And a mind unwarped by fear, clear enough to see that the future of our country requires that we face up to the tasks that are in front of us.

That said, let me address the point about condolences to Mr. Trump, because it's an interesting one. First, let me say I am learning, in a men's group mostly in their 70s and 80s, that I am not very good about condolences to strangers. I am still getting to know them, and can barely tell Skip from Ben, and they are facing the trials of old age together (which I will be in the middle of soon enough). So I devoutly pray that my tepid formalities do not sting, and that they take comfort from the heartfelt sympathy of the guys they have been friends with for 20, 30 and 40 years. If I am not living up to my social obligations, I am sorry about that, but I expect that what really matters in condolences is true accompaniment, the ability to feel some of the loss.

Trump's loss sort of takes that dynamic totally off the normal human scale. First of all, we know that he showed no sorrow or sympathy at the time of a previous brother's death, barely visiting in the hospital and effectively dusting the guy off his shoulders like so much dandruff. Now, I don't really want to get told about the private affairs of public figures, but that representation fits my experience with narcissists quite well. I believe he has suffered a real loss, but it seems he comes from a family in which loss is not something you let yourself be vulnerable enough to feel.

I feel a lot of pity for Trump, and even a certain amount of empathy. But it isn't for the ordinary sorrows that we all face, since loving someone means being hurt when they die. I feel sorry for the guy every day, for having to live in his skin. Having to avoid his failings by trying to prop up a fantasy version of himself, every day and every hour. We all have failings. Some of us still haven't figured out that being human is a worthy thing in itself, and that the pain that life brings is not made any lighter by putting up a front of invulnerability.

What does make it lighter is company. I hope Trump has somebody he can let down his guard with, and share his sorrow with. That somebody is certainly not me. Would my condolences make any difference, on the weird off chance that they came to his attention? I seriously doubt it.



Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:14 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5929
Thanks: 1380
Thanked: 973 times in 838 posts
Gender: None specified
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump Watch
DWill wrote:
ant wrote:
On a much different note, Harry, aren't you a progressive Christian?

On your "Trump Watch" why didn't you mentioned the loss of Trump's brother recently? Or did I miss it.
You comment enough on him and his character.. Why wouldn't you, as a Christian, offer condolences for his recent loss?

We have many, many differences on this little planet we live on, but at our deepest core we all hurt and grieve nearly the same as our friends and those we might very well dislike intensely.

Where's the empathy in your religion?
Has it somehow been justifiably washed away?

That is simply uncalled for, ant. You impugned his faith based on his not making a special point of mentioning, in a thread clearly meant to talk about Trump as president, Robert Trump's death. Do you pay attention at all to what Harry Marks says on BT? I have to think that if you did you would never accuse him of a lack of empathy, and surely not on this flimsiest of pretexts.



Knowing that your reply here is not entirely representative of all the people on BT, I have to say that I reject any self righteous indignation responsive to what I've asked Harry as it relates to his religion.

Religion, most specifically Christianity and its tenets, have been called into question (and attacked) countless times here.
Now all of a sudden its taboo?

I'm not buying it.

Most all of you have taken your shots at "religious" people at one time or another. Your pass is not exclusive and you aren't going to stone me for it just because you've found something (or someone) more detestable than religion (Trump).

What's a "Trump Watch" anyway?
I too am watching Trump. The death of his brother was headline news.
I'm guessing a Trump Watch does not include the very human side of his life.

I'm appalled that people of religion can ignore suffering in the name of politics.

I called it out.
That's tough if it ruffled your feathers.



Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:35 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5929
Thanks: 1380
Thanked: 973 times in 838 posts
Gender: None specified
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Trump Watch
Quote:
Harry wrote:

To state the obvious, you did not offer condolences yourself, at least, as far as I know.


Tu quoque from a Christian?

Sorry, but I'm really surprised at how much Christianity has "progressed."

Quote:
Trump's loss sort of takes that dynamic totally off the normal human scale. First of all, we know that he showed no sorrow or sympathy at the time of a previous brother's death,


Why do you seem to expect that grief displayed openly is the only grief that should be recognized?
People grieve in different ways. And why are you being so judgmental here? Who has granted you authority to carry a "human scale" to determine who is human and who might be less human? That is quite chilling and totally antithetical to Love, the bedrock of Christianity.
Or has that changed too, Harry?

As I've said here before on BT, I attended a private Christian school from K through 12. I am very familiar with the tenets of Christianity.


Quote:
First, let me say I am learning, in a men's group mostly in their 70s and 80s, that I am not very good about condolences to strangers


For a man of faith you have a very callous tone about one particular human being that no one but I can recognize because I am not in your Trump Is Bad bubble.
What the old men pointed out to you is wise and telling.

Generally speaking, I fear the day when politics has completely replaced religion.

Thanks for the honest reply.



Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:58 am
Profile Email
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 227 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 ... 16  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Community Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Book Discussion Leaders

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
Banned Books
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Coming Soon!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Coming Soon!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
Promote your FICTION book
Promote your NON-FICTION book





BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2019. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank