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Trump is not a joke 
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
Litwitlou wrote:
.
Four major automakers said on Thursday they have reached an agreement with California on fuel efficiency rules, bypassing a Trump administration effort to strip the state of the right to fight climate change by setting its own standards.
Isn't that a wonderful development? States' rights, and all that? The Federalist Society will probably file an amicus brief on California's behalf.
..........
Litwitlou wrote:
.Environmental Protection Agency spokesman Michael Abboud called the agreement “a PR stunt that does nothing to ... provide certainty and relief for American consumers.”.
Well, surely a member of the current administration knows a thing or two about stunts and PR, but this is empty rhetoric. The last thing Dear Leader wants is a court hearing about climate change. You can order bureaucrats around, but courts deal in fact.



Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:52 pm
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
Litwitlou wrote:

In my opinion, Pelosi is a political genius. The situation might change after Mueller, testifies but right now impeachment can't hurt him. The Senate would never go for it. The members of Trump's cult of personality would rally round him. This is a bass ackwards Presidency. Every time Trump does something appalling his numbers go up.


Whether or not Pelosi is a political genius is beside the point. She's wrong. We could at least get an impeachment inquiry started. That would be no skin off their noses.

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Pelosi knows Trump can lose the popular vote by a greater margin than he did in 2016 and still win in 2020. It's all about electoral votes in the swing states, and a sure-to-fail attempted impeachment would only spur the Trumpettes in those states to vote.


That's the moderate view but it's wrong--as usual. The electoral college is not going to be a factor because turn-out on the left will be high if the mid-terms are any indication. They could impeach Trump for failing to uphold the constitution which is the very basis of his presidential oath. We have numerous examples of that. He could be impeached for accusing Barack Obama of bugging Trump Tower which he claimed he had evidence for but then failed to produce any. He should not be allowed to get away with that--that was a serious accusation. Let the Senate try and shoot that down. If they dismiss it, they have explain why Trump made the accusation, claimed to have evidence, asked for more time to prepare his case but never went forward with it. The public would want to know WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE??? What is the Senate going to say? Trump doesn't remember where he put it? Sure they can just dismiss it but then it looks like exactly what it is: they are covering for him and letting him get away with serious, baseless accusations unfit for a president to be engaging in and in so doing they are showing how unfit they are to sit in the Senate defending this crap. That would spur far more democrats, liberals and leftists to vote than Trump supporters (who, by themselves, don't have enough enough numbers to carry Trump).

Trump has used his office to promote white supremacy. Most Americans do believe Trump is a racist. So let the Senate shoot that down--I expect it and I welcome it. They'll be shooting themselves down in the process. That won't exonerate Trump in the eyes of the public--quite the opposite. It also indicts the Senate.

They could impeach Trump for his treatment of families at the border. I'm sure no explanation is needed for that one. There are quite a number of things they could impeach for that would force the Senate into a bad position whether they vote with the House or against it. The progressives have it right, the neo-liberals (the moderates) do not.



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Taylor
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:36 pm
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
DB Roy wrote:
That's the moderate view but it's wrong--as usual. The electoral college is not going to be a factor because turn-out on the left will be high if the mid-terms are any indication. They could impeach Trump for failing to uphold the constitution which is the very basis of his presidential oath. We have numerous examples of that. He could be impeached for accusing Barack Obama of bugging Trump Tower which he claimed he had evidence for but then failed to produce any. He should not be allowed to get away with that--that was a serious accusation. Let the Senate try and shoot that down. If they dismiss it, they have explain why Trump made the accusation, claimed to have evidence, asked for more time to prepare his case but never went forward with it. The public would want to know WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE??? What is the Senate going to say? Trump doesn't remember where he put it? Sure they can just dismiss it but then it looks like exactly what it is: they are covering for him and letting him get away with serious, baseless accusations unfit for a president to be engaging in and in so doing they are showing how unfit they are to sit in the Senate defending this crap. That would spur far more democrats, liberals and leftists to vote than Trump supporters (who, by themselves, don't have enough enough numbers to carry Trump).


DB Roy wrote:
Trump has used his office to promote white supremacy. Most Americans do believe Trump is a racist. So let the Senate shoot that down--I expect it and I welcome it. They'll be shooting themselves down in the process. That won't exonerate Trump in the eyes of the public--quite the opposite. It also indicts the Senate.


DB Roy wrote:
They could impeach Trump for his treatment of families at the border. I'm sure no explanation is needed for that one. There are quite a number of things they could impeach for that would force the Senate into a bad position whether they vote with the House or against it. The progressives have it right, the neo-liberals (the moderates) do not.


This is the best argument for impeachment that I have read. Well done DB Roy. The way that you have presented impeachment here would put the scrutiny and responsibility on the Senate Republicans. Watching the GOP squirm in their pants every time the cameras are present would be precious.



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Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:36 am
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
Well, it has FINALLY happened! An official impeachment inquiry against Trump has started in House at the request of Speaker Pelosi. All this proves to my satisfaction that Trump is an idiot. A lot of people are saying that he got away with so much and now he's finally getting what he has coming. I disagree. He hasn't gotten away with any of that stuff. His presidency was on a downward spiral from the moment he failed to repeal the ACA as he had promised to do so many times in his campaign. When that failed, Trump was a goner. True, it took a long time but I knew back then that it was coming and I wasn't expecting it to happen quickly although I thought it would come faster. I had given him only 2 years in office.

What's funny is that Trump did all this to himself. Nobody really had to dig anything up on him. Give him enough time and he'll hand you the rope by which to hang him and that's precisely what has happened. Trump's weird universe has an ethics system that runs thusly:

1. There is right and wrong.
2. Whatever helps me is right. Whatever doesn't help me is wrong.

That's it. There is no regard for truth. Truth is meaningless to Trump. Truth is something stupid people engage in when they can as easily lie and get away with it. When a lie does as well or better than the truth, Trump will not hesitate to lie. Lies set things in his favor and are therefore right and good. So lies are truth. When truth hurts him, it is a lie. Giuliani summed it all up in his statement, "Truth is not truth."

I hear a lot of Trump-supporters at work making excuses for Trump and none of them hold water. One goes that what they have on Trump is just the same old shit that was in the Steele Dossier. That's ridiculous on the face of it. Trump's telephone conversation to the newly-elected president of the Ukraine, Zelensky, was definitely never in the Steele Dossier.

There is no evidence that Trump was threatening to withhold $400 million in military aid to the Ukraine unless they agreed to investigate and come up with dirt on Biden. First, Trump inexplicably stopped the aid package to the Ukraine. Most of his own people did not know why. So to say there was no attempt on the part of Trump to offer the aid to Zelensky makes one wonder why then did Trump stop the aid package in the first place. Apparently, he wanted to have something to dangle in front of Zelensky to ensure his cooperation. This ties into the idea that Trump was engaging in his own kind of quid pro quo. All of which is illegal. But, say the Trump-supporters, there is no explicit quid pro quo going on in that transcript. But here is the thing: It doesn't matter!!! The law says that a president cannot engage another nation to investigate and dig up dirt on a political opponent. It makes no difference if he was coercing Zelensky or dropping to his knees and asking pretty please with a cherry on top. The crime is requesting this "favor" Trump wanted from Zelensky not how or why he was requesting it.

The whistle-blower is really a leaker!!! Even if he is, so what? That doesn't exonerate Trump in any way. He was requesting an illegal favor from Zelensky--period--whether the evidence was uncovered by a whistle-blower or a leaker (whatever the difference is supposed to be).

Trump has a big feud with his intelligence services and figured he could just swing the deal himself because he's Mr. Dealmaker.

This whistle-blower only had 2nd and 3rd hand knowledge of what was going on. He can't be taken seriously. He sure can! It was his activities that alerted us to the phone call in the first place and it paid off big time. It's ridiculous to say that any info this guy gives us is suspect when it just turned Trump into a slam-dunk impeachment by revealing a crime so grievous that Nancy Pelosi, who has been resisting impeachment talk with great force, now has no choice but to go ahead with an inquiry. Trump MADE her reverse her stance.

The whistle-blower also stated that any data that revealed Trump engaged in malfeasance was moved to another server reserved only for material that is supposed to preserve national security not hide political liability! Huge abuse of power! He stated that are other incidents that were moved there. I guarantee you, those incidents have already been found and we'll be hearing about them little-by-little over the next few months. So while the current wisdom is that the Senate won't uphold the impeachment process (which the House will send them by a 50%+1 vote) by the required 2/3rds majority vote, I'm thinking that may not be true. If enough crime is uncovered, the Senate may, like Speaker Pelosi, be forced to give in and go through with the 2/3rds majority. Several ex-congressmen among the republicans are saying there are 30 republicans in the senate that WILL vote yes on the charges although they choose to remain anonymous for now. If that is so, the Senate WILL give us the 2/3rds.

Trump is running scared right now but who does he have to blame? Himself. HE released the transcript. This is why you can't back intellectually incurious clods. Trump thought the transcript would really make him look good! He didn't realize the favor he requested was a crime. He should have known but he doesn't care to look up that stuff. He is utterly indifferent to law-breaking. He's been doing it all his life and gotten away with it. You would think, as a president, he would make sure he knew where the limits of his power were but he never bothered to find out which means that, ultimately, he didn't care.

That's like going to sleep in your car while driving 80 mph down the freeway. You may wake up in time to prevent crashing a few times but sooner or later--there's gonna be a big wreck. And that's what we have with the Trump presidency--a big slow-motion wreck.

Trump may last the rest of his term but he won't survive the disaster of his presidency.



Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:26 pm
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
Whew. That was a big one. I hope you had plenty of paper on the spool after.

With luck our beloved Hillary will run again. She's on a "listening tour" at the moment. SHE knows what's what when it comes to dealing with foreigners. She paid a British agent 9 million to collect Russian dirt on Trump, and she got away with it. And when it looked like congress would be asking for her emails, she sicced her people on the hard drives with Bleachbit, hammers and hand drills.

Yep, we need that kind of competence in the White House again. I really, really hope she runs.


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Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:49 pm
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
Hillary Clinton will never run again.



Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:45 pm
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
In recent days, it has come to our attention that there is, in fact, another whistle-blower about to come forward. Beyond this, we have not been told what this person is going to reveal. Trump wants to meet the first whistle-blower saying he has a right to meet his accuser. That's only at a civil trial, Donald. Whistle-blowers are guaranteed anonymity. The truth is, this whistle-blower is ancillary now. He or she isn't needed anymore. The whistle they blew bore fruit in form of evidence and the evidence is what the House cares about now. The whistle-blower is no longer particularly significant. At an impeachment trial, it would be unnecessary for this whistle-blower to testify. Trump's defense will have to attack the evidence not the whistle-blower.

The evidence is a slam-dunk because the White House turned it over at Trump's direction and in it is a violation of the law--two really: The solicitation of aid from a foreign nation to dig up dirt on a political opponent and the employment of quid pro quo by stopping an already approved deal in order to use it as bait to coerce the foreign nation to assist in the commission of a crime.

But Trump's problem is that he can't back down in a fight. If he's caught breaking the law, he keeps doing it rather than backing off. He has the emotional mentality of a child--"Don't like that? Good! I'll do it more!" So, before the cameras, Trump not only repeated his violation of the law by again exhorting the Ukraine to investigate Biden, he then exhorted China to do the same! Not only is he now committing a new crime before the eyes of the entire world, it takes some nerve to exhort to a rival nation upon whom you are levying tariffs to assist you in the commission of a crime that wouldn't benefit them in the slightest. It's fair to say the Chinese govt despises Trump and, no matter how one might feel about the Chinese govt, can one blame them?

One can only assume that Trump doesn't believe anything is going to happen to him. I would say that he is pushing his luck. Okay, maybe you broke the law without meaning to. Maybe you should have known but you didn't but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt about it. But if you keep doing it, how many times do you expect me to keep giving you the benefit of the doubt? After the second time, I can't. You now broke the law when you knew perfectly well that it was illegal because the first time you did it, it got an impeachment inquiry started but now I'm supposed excuse the second offense? Based on what? That you didn't know? Well, either you're incredibly stupid or I am for continuing to defend it. At that point, it is obvious that I am not interested in protecting the country, I am just covering for you. History will be a harsh of judge of that and maybe, just maybe, I'm not willing to risk my good name for your stupid lawlessness. So Trump is abusing his defenders. At this point, I am 50% convinced that the Senate will vote for a conviction. There are more than enough republicans there who think Trump is not worth it.

What I wonder about is what else are we going to find out because more is coming. But don't we already have enough? What are dragging our heels for? As a Mother Jones article stated:

In 2016, Vladimir Putin’s regime mounted information warfare against the United States, in part to help Trump become president. While this attack was underway, the Trump crew tried to collude covertly with Moscow, sought to set up a secret communications channel with Putin’s office, and repeatedly denied in public that this assault was happening, providing cover to the Russian operation. Trump and his lieutenants aligned themselves with and assisted a foreign adversary, as it was attacking the United States. The evidence is rock-solid: They committed a profound act of betrayal. That is the scandal.

The Americans were shockingly willing to put up with it. Despite his low performance ratings, it seemed the public wanted to believe Trump. And they didn't want to impeach him. That has changed. Now the majority of the public wants him impeached. The idea before was: "Yes, Trump's a dickhead but impeachment is a long, involved process. Look, we're close to November 2020, let's just wait and vote him out." But now they are realizing the grave mistake of that reasoning. The transcript of that phone call demonstrated that Trump has no qualms about persuading other countries to interfere with our elections. It means that Trump DID indeed collude with the Russians as charged and it means that it was Trump himself who did it not his campaign people. Mitch McConnell shows how resistant he is to enacting campaign reform laws to prevent further foreign interference. We are on the verge of giving away our democracy to the highest foreign bidder. If we wait until the election, it will be too late! We cannot allow him to do it again!

To me, it is obvious: Trump MUST be removed from office BEFORE the election. If he wins again, what excuse can we as a nation possibly offer?



Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:14 pm
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
The Chinese could see a lot of benefit in helping Trump with his scheme. They would render Trump less adamant about punishing China for its trade and intell property infringements, etc., if they provided "evidence" to back up Trump's accusations. But they won't be doing this out of awareness that now the world would see through it as an obvious ploy.

Has Trump finally used all of his get-out-of-jail-free cards and now must suffer the consequence either of impeachment (but not conviction) or resounding defeat in 2020? As he would say, we'll see. The guy has nine lives.

Joe Biden made a mistake even running for pres. His ambition is huge, but he's not the man. Charges against him are of course "trumped up," but his judgment is open to scrutiny, and it's not just a wild theory of the right that he might have used his office to help out his troubled son, Hunter. Hunter seems to have been a poor, lost, addicted soul most of his life.



Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:33 am
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
DWill wrote:
The Chinese could see a lot of benefit in helping Trump with his scheme. They would render Trump less adamant about punishing China for its trade and intell property infringements, etc., if they provided "evidence" to back up Trump's accusations. But they won't be doing this out of awareness that now the world would see through it as an obvious ploy.


I don't think China is interested. The tariffs hurt us not them. They now have another soybean supplier so they don't care about that. Trump screwed the farmers way worse than he hurt China. China will just sit back and wait for November of 2020.

Quote:
Has Trump finally used all of his get-out-of-jail-free cards and now must suffer the consequence either of impeachment (but not conviction) or resounding defeat in 2020? As he would say, we'll see. The guy has nine lives.


I can't believe Americans have become so apathetic that they don't care that Trump colluded with foreign govts to win election, that he has set up this govt like a mob syndicate where every leader of every post swears utter loyalty and fealty to him including the Justice Dept which is supposed to operate independently. Barr doesn't even pretend that he's independent of Trump. As I said, if he cheats his way back in, who is to blame? We had him on the ropes and we let him go because we're tried of investigations??? Seriously??? "Sure, sell us down the river if you want just give me a break and let me watch 'America's Got Talent.'"

Quote:
Joe Biden made a mistake even running for pres. His ambition is huge, but he's not the man. Charges against him are of course "trumped up," but his judgment is open to scrutiny, and it's not just a wild theory of the right that he might have used his office to help out his troubled son, Hunter. Hunter seems to have been a poor, lost, addicted soul most of his life.


There is ZERO evidence Biden did anything illegal. If he wants to help his son, so what? You'd do the same if it was your son. But Trump has some nerve pointing at anyone and saying, "Your kids have benefitted unfairly because of your office." I mean, that's unbelievable.



Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:01 pm
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
DB Roy wrote:
I don't think China is interested. The tariffs hurt us not them. They now have another soybean supplier so they don't care about that. Trump screwed the farmers way worse than he hurt China. China will just sit back and wait for November of 2020.

China wouldn't reveal if tariffs are contributing to its slowing economy, but several analysts think they are. That makes sense because the tariffs are bigger than just soybeans. If Chinese products are too expensive for U.S. companies to think consumers will still buy them, China has to seek other markets, and the U.S. is its number one.
Quote:
There is ZERO evidence Biden did anything illegal. If he wants to help his son, so what? You'd do the same if it was your son. But Trump has some nerve pointing at anyone and saying, "Your kids have benefitted unfairly because of your office." I mean, that's unbelievable.

I know there's no evidence that Biden did anything illegal regarding the firing of the Ukraine prosecutor. There is even no direct evidence of his pulling strings to help his son land lucrative posts. Hunter used his connection under his own initiative. But there are awkward appearances for Joe, as well as awkward family matters that have now come to the fore. That's what I meant about Biden making a mistake in running for pres. He was witnessing his son create a timebomb as Hunter accepted the post with the shady Burisma Co., having no qualifications to serve on its board. Joe didn't apparently intervene to convince Hunter not to do that. Folks in the Obama admin. were concerned about Joe's image getting tarnished. Well, Hunter is an adult, and I'm not blaming dad for not talking him out of it. A lot of pain stemmed from Biden's family life. But I wonder if Biden is sensitive to the corruption that Hunter's plum job represents: people with political connections trading on them to accept money from frequently shady sources. Sarah Chayes has a good article on that practice in the Atlantic. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... on/598804/.

It's not relevant to the point, but I hope Biden isn't the nominee. He won't stand up well to the punishment of four months of intense scrutiny and campaigning. We need someone who will contrast to Trump's incoherence is speaking, and Biden surely isn't that person. I had a memory of him so easily handling Sarah Palin in 2008 and doing well against Paul Ryan in 2012, but he has really lost some speed since then.



Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:28 pm
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
DWill wrote:
China wouldn't reveal if tariffs are contributing to its slowing economy, but several analysts think they are. That makes sense because the tariffs are bigger than just soybeans. If Chinese products are too expensive for U.S. companies to think consumers will still buy them, China has to seek other markets, and the U.S. is its number one.


China announced a couple of weeks ago that they will not investigate the Bidens. The Chinese govt has already learned what others are only now learning: trying to appease Trump is pointless. They gave his daughter all those trademarks and he turns around and hits them with tariffs anyway. You bet they are plenty sore and are not going to waste anymore time dealing with him. As for the US market share, they know they'll get it back when the next president takes office so they'll wait it out.


Quote:
I know there's no evidence that Biden did anything illegal regarding the firing of the Ukraine prosecutor. There is even no direct evidence of his pulling strings to help his son land lucrative posts. Hunter used his connection under his own initiative. But there are awkward appearances for Joe, as well as awkward family matters that have now come to the fore. That's what I meant about Biden making a mistake in running for pres. He was witnessing his son create a timebomb as Hunter accepted the post with the shady Burisma Co., having no qualifications to serve on its board.


They have no leg to stand on. That was Trump's entire cabinet and every post he filled--someone with no experience and no qualifications. And we're supposed to care about Biden's son who did nothing wrong? And the republican will find something else to bitch about even when it's a total non-issue like Benghazi or an email server. They gaslighted the country with that only because people hated Clinton and WANTED to believe anything they said about her. I argued with Bernie-bots who were worse than the republicans when it came to that shit. If Biden gets in, I don't see it sticking. For one thing, I think people are dog-tired of that kind of politics.

Quote:
It's not relevant to the point, but I hope Biden isn't the nominee. He won't stand up well to the punishment of four months of intense scrutiny and campaigning. We need someone who will contrast to Trump's incoherence is speaking, and Biden surely isn't that person. I had a memory of him so easily handling Sarah Palin in 2008 and doing well against Paul Ryan in 2012, but he has really lost some speed since then.


I don't care who it is as long as they win.



Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:44 pm
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
At this point, it's hard to see Trump even making it to the elections. He's losing court cases, Pro-Publica just obtained his tax records through FOIA which shows he inflated the profitability of his property to the banks in order to win loans he otherwise wouldn't have gotten (bank fraud) and deflated the profitability to the govt in order to get lower taxes (tax fraud). This is the kind of stuff the Clintons were constantly accused of but no one could prove they did and republicans voters want to lock them up anyway. Now they have proof that Trump did it and they refuse to withdraw their support of him. Hypocrites and self-deceivers. If there was ever an argument for why Christianity isn't worth a shit, there it is.

There can be no denying that Trump is at the center of all this illegal activity. It's not his people doing things without his knowledge--HE is at the center of it and there is no denying. We now know that Rudy Giuliani set up a shadow policy with Ukraine to investigate the Bidens and the DNC for election purposes and that he did it at the behest of Trump. Not only has testimony from Gordon Sondland, Ukraine ambassador, pointed a finger at Giuliani as setting up a shadow Ukraine policy, but, while Sondland kept Trump's name out of it, it hardly matters because we know that Trump ordered the firing of Sondland's predecessor, Marie Yovanovitch, specifically because she opposed having the Ukraine govt investigate the Bidens.

This shadow policy is corroborated by Kurt Volker, State Dept envoy. In testimony, Volker produced text messages between himself and Giuliani concerning having the Zelensky govt investigate the Bidens. Volker also revealed that Bill Taylor, a Trump State Department top official, stated that he thought it was crazy to withhold military aid to Ukraine in exchange for an investigation into the Bidens which means that the top Trump person at the State Dept knew what precisely what was going on and wanted to stop it. Taylor will be subpoenaed and it is expected he will testify rather than cow under Mike Pompeo's order not to. He opposed this chicanery from the start and it is not thought that he would now lie for Trump and put himself in jeopardy.

Just when it looked like it couldn't get worse for Trump, Mick Mulvaney opens his big mouth and pretty much confesses everything alleged in the phone call between Trump and Zelensky and that it is done all the time and that people need to "get over it." This is nothing short of stunning! Exactly what Mulvaney was thinking when he did this is not known but it is more than enough to push Senate republicans into a position of having no choice but to vote for a conviction. Now Mulvaney is trying to walk it back but it's too late. The only thing he could do now is say he lied about that whole thing and that will destroy his credibility and even get him charged also. But if he knew that what Trump was up to and was assisting him, he will get charged anyway. First there is no quid pro quo, then there is, there there isn't, then there is. This administration is in chaos.

Now you would think that Trump would at least not do anything to erode his support at this point since it is vital that he hang onto it. So what does he do? He orders the evacuation of US troops from Northern Syria which deserts the Kurds who had been faithful allies since Bush. This was seemingly done on a whim. Trump appears to have conferred with nobody over the matter. Many govt officials look like they are shell-shocked right now. How could Trump do this?? We desert an ally, Turkey now starts making moves on the Kurds, ISIS prisoners are escaping by the hundreds. Civilians including children are dying by the thousands. Trump's response? He accuses the Kurds of letting prisoners go as a ploy to yank America back into Northern Syria. Then he threatens to destroy Turkey's economy if they invade the Kurdish territory. Erdogan is acting like he couldn't care less what Trump is threatening. Trump is threatening to wreck a nation over a situation that HE created in the first place! The desperate Kurds are now seeking an alliance with the Assad govt which is back by Russia and what happens if the Kurds are forced to partner up to ISIS? The only winner is, surprise, Russia. And ISIS. Utterly insane.

Military officials are angry and embarrassed and many troops stationed there couldn't look their Kurdish counterparts in the eye as they left the area. Trump's actions have totally undermined the US as a dependable ally. Trump looks weak, cowardly and easily manipulated. He has bowed to Putin, bowed to Kim, bowed to Erdogan. If there is a dictator to bow to, Trump will find him.

Then Trump sends the following missive to Erdogan:

Dear Mr. President,
Let’s work out a good deal! You don’t want to be responsible for slaughtering thousands of people, and I don’t want to be responsible for destroying the Turkish economy—and I will. I've already given you a little sample with respect to Pastor Brunson.

I have worked hard to solve some of your problems. Don't let the world down. You can make a great deal. General Mazloum is willing to negotiate with you, and he is willing to make concessions that they would never have made in the past. I am confidentially enclosing a copy of his letter to me, just received.

History will look upon you favorably if you get this done the right and humane way. It will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don't happen. Don't be a tough guy. Don't be a fool!

I will call you later.

Sincerely,

Donald Trump


Borowitz or the Onion couldn't have come up with anything so ridiculous! This, folks, is Trump being presidential the best he knows how--this is it! Erdogan was so insulted, he threw the letter away. Trump doesn't want Erdogan slaughtering thousands of people not because it will go on Erdogan's head but because it will go on his own. He had to know when he withdrew US troops that Turkey would immediately move in. In one instance, he denies that he was giving Turkey a green light but another instance he said Turkey could move in if it wanted to. Erdogan doesn't fear Trump because Trump is so weak and will always cave in and they both know it. Trump is a loudmouth with a big stick he's too chickenshit to use. Go ahead, Donald, wreck the Turkish economy. Be my guest. Many evangelicals have split with Trump over this as have many military people. This will go down in history as the Great Betrayal.

But then why not betray the Kurds? He's been betraying America since 2016. The writing is on the wall: "Get rid of Trump and get rid of him now."



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Robert Tulip
Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:18 pm
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
Trump for certain brushed away his handlers and wrote that letter all by himself. It's unmistakably his own work. Most puzzling is, "Don't be a tough guy." Trump has openly praised autocrats exactly for their toughness, and he sees himself as a tough guy, too. Only, when it comes to standing up to these foreign strong men, he's a puppy dog.

A depressing fact is that it's only 13 mos. until the 2020 election, and with the slow workings of Congress and delaying tactics by the Administration, Trump may not face a reckoning. And anyway, even if more shit hits the fan, would the Senate convict? Probably not. Then we get to an election. What if the economy avoids serious difficulty? With the incumbent's advantage and a billion $ in his warchest, Trump will likely be ours for another 4 years. The key might be who the Democrats put up against him. None of the poll leaders look especially promising.

However, there's a theory circulating that Trump wants to be impeached and removed. Sounds crazy, maybe, but this result would give Trump what he thrives on--reveling in his victimhood and proof that the deep state was plotting his overthrow all along. He could then set up a media company to replace the wimpy Fox News. Put Alex Jones at its head. He could not resign to get out of a job he finds not at all to his taste. That would be showing weakness.



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Robert Tulip
Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:05 am
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 Re: Trump is not a joke
I've seen two competing theories on how Trump will devolve. (No this will not end well.) One just mentioned by DWill is Trump will resign, he wants out of it.
Quote:
I've always believed Trump is ultimately determined to destroy himself -- to confirm his own lifelong conviction that the world is out to get him. In the middle of being impeached, he decides to hold the G-7 at his own hotel. Self-dealing. Clear and undeniable. Jaw dropping.
- Tony Schwartz
Tweet 9/17/19

Tony wrote Trump's Art of the Deal and obviously spent a lot of time with him and knows Trump very well. This theory is supported by others who have followed Trump for long periods of time.

The other theory, by experts on Russia and Ukraine and how powerful oligarchs operate there, is Trump is behaving just like them - he will seize dictatorial power and never let go. Sarah Kendzior is one and she advises to hold on fast to your values because they will be under attack. Try to imagine the worst that will be done, because it will go much further than that. You see people talking about reaching a new low, but ignore that. A mafia style kleptocratic dynasty will be installed. There. Is. No. Bottom.

I expect if impeachment momentum continues, if it appears the Senate might convict, and if polls strongly indicate Trump will lose the election he will resign because his god-like ego could not tolerate such humiliation. However as DWill mentions, if this fever subsides, the economy doesn't enter recession, and Trump wins the next election, I fear for Trump the Autocrat.



Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:35 am
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Post Re: Trump is not a joke
I think the Senate will convict. They can't acquit and justify it anymore. I think the American people have had enough of Trump and his bullshit. I think if the republicans acquit, there will be hell to pay and heads to roll. Everybody knows that Trump can't heed a warning. If he is acquitted, he will go right back to doing what he was doing and I think people have seen enough. I don't think the economy matters. Nor does it matter about how much money Trump has in his war chest (The Republican Party outspent the Democrats significantly in 2012 and lost). The people simply don't have confidence in this man. In fact, most never did. The only thing that matters is will the voters turn out? No turn-out will give Trump a victory. At this time, I do not believe that will happen. In fact, I doubt Trump will even be on the ballot so if they are going to run someone else, they need to make a move NOW.



Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:29 pm
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