DWill wrote:It seems you didn't read the entire post. Are you claiming that U.S. presidents direct taking out those they consider their political enemies?

The larger point the Fox interviewer was getting at was Trump's admiration for, and absolute refusal to criticize, Vladimir Putin. That is all passing strange.

We do not know if its admiration or political kowtowing for specific future political gain, which most every president has done at one time or another.

Your feelings that it is "strange" are strictly based on perhaps an intuitive hunch and groupthink. It's essentially suspicion based on zero evidence of any conspiracy in the making.

Geo wrote:

here are so many problems with this tweet,

Agreed.

ant wrote:

DWill wrote:It seems you didn't read the entire post. Are you claiming that U.S. presidents direct taking out those they consider their political enemies?

The larger point the Fox interviewer was getting at was Trump's admiration for, and absolute refusal to criticize, Vladimir Putin. That is all passing strange.

We do not know if its admiration or political kowtowing for specific future political gain, which most every president has done at one time or another.

Your feelings that it is "strange" are strictly based on perhaps an intuitive hunch and groupthink. It's essentially suspicion based on zero evidence of any conspiracy in the making.

I didn't mention conspiracy and wasn't thinking of that. For purposes of comparison, take Republican icon Ronald Reagan's labeling the Soviet Union the evil empire. Donald Trump, quick to denigrate other nations, won't besmirch Russia and on the contrary has praised it and its leader. There's enough strangeness in that scenario without ever going into possible conflicts of interest. Trumps's motivation may be political, but that is no justification of his actions since the politics are misguided.

and remember this is Trump. He bashes everything he can manage to spew bullshit about, but somehow Putin's Russia is full of nothing but sunshine and rainbows?

The only people Trump doesn't bash are the people that have said nice things about him, or are on his team.

He loved Meryl Streep until she mentioned his actions in reality and now she's over rated. To list all the things he has talked about in both stark positive and negative terms raining praise and raging disdain would be to just give you a link to his twitter stream.

Trump doesn't bash Russia because he is deep in their pocket. It's about the only thing about which he's been consistent.

DWill,

What "other nations" is he denigrating?

Is Trump denigrating Mexico for wanting to secure the border? A right that every single autonomous nation on the planet has?

Most people that scream racism when discussing a wall are those most removed from the situation. Illegal aliens and their children cost California tax payers an estimated 25 billion dollars a year. Their newborn children cost an addition 1 million dollars. Californian budgets its infrastructure costs horribly, but continues to tax native born citizens to support social programs that illegal immigrants benefit from. I'm a grandchild of legal immigrants. Why should exemptions be granted to immigrants who are here illegally while I have to obey every single law that's codified? California's middle class is bearing the brunt of taxation across the board. The real costs of supporting illegal immigrants is death by a thousand cuts for people like me.
(you can argue illegal aliens pay taxes too. I'll argue remittances add to the loss of costs stated above)

No one talks about the flow of drugs (like heroin) from the south that are destroying people's lives.
Here's a link to the Justice Department's 2011 report. It includes maps of the flow of drug traffic into the US. Without question, the most dominant routes are all south of us, beginning at porous border locations. Heroin has become a serious problem again. The Left NEVER addersses this issue.
https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pu ... 44849p.pdf

Are we denigrating Mexico for wanting to curtail the economic and human costs to the US? You're really moralizing far too much if you think a country wanting to secure its borders is equivalent to denigrating them.


Did the US denigrate Muslim dominated countries by suspending immigration for 7 of them?
Here's a list of Muslim dominated countries where immigration was not suspended for 90 days:

Indonesia
Bangladesh
India
Pakistan
Algeria
Morocco
Turkey
Tunisia
Chad
Nigeria
Uzbekistan
Niger
Tanzania
Kenya
Senegal
Kazakhstan
Malaysia

It's a difficult argument to accept that a particular class of people were being discriminated against when approximately 88% of the entire world population of that group were unburdened by the suspension.

I agreed with the 9th Circuit's ruling regarding procedural violations related to the suspension. It was horribly executed.
The latest ruling that lifted Trump's suspension is particularly interesting (religious protection grounds). Ironically that ruling, however indirect, supports future protection of religious groups here in the States (ie Little Sisters of the Poor/Hobby Lobby, etc)

What other nations are you claiming Trump denigrated? China? North/South Korea? Japan? How so?

I'm an Independent that didn't vote for Trump. He's not the statesman we need and is too unfiltered and unorthodox. Clinton wasn't the answer either. She was just a vote for business as usual. CNN colluding with her by sharing the questions in advance prior to the debate is something I didn't forget. That and the email scandal. I don't exactly consider her to be a moral upgrade.

I'm certainly not jumping on the Left's bandwagon. This version of the Left is NOT classical liberalism which I have great respect for.
The Left still doesn't get it: it lost because of its water-downed identity politics, which really is nothing more than the politics of narcissism.


As a side note, I really get ticked off when white people (not you) tell me as a latino man I should loathe and fear Trump, and that his Wall is just a racist monument.
I have never heard one single thing out of Trump's loud mouth that I considered to be overt racism against latinos. And Mexico has never done anything for me, or its citizens for that matter.
It's corrupted to the core by politicians who are owned by drug cartels. Let's hope one day the people of Mexico decide to ban together to clean up their own backyard. That would be wonderful.
Demanding your rights be protected in an entirely different country you don't hold legal citizenship in is blatantly hypocritical and cowardly. Stand in line, like my family did.

He loved Meryl Streep until she mentioned his actions in reality and now she's over rated. To list all the things he has talked about in both stark positive and negative terms raining praise and raging disdain would be to just give you a link to his twitter stream.

Well, having Hollywood celebrities leading the charge of the Left is not something to be proud about.

These hypocrites denounce gun violence - but continually make millions and millions of dollars glorifying it in their movies.


These hypocrites champion the rights of illegal immigrants - but the only time they welcome them into their homes and communities is to clean their yards and houses.



True story:

A childhood friend of mine now works for a company that cleans houses. His first day of work he arrived at a house in the West LA /Beverly Hills early. He parked outside the house and sat in his car for a half hour.
A resident in the neighborhood called the police on him for looking suspicious (he's Mexican).

There's so much moral hypocrisy flying around these days. Particularly from the Left who were worried the Right would not accept a Clinton victory.
Ironic

ant wrote:DWill,

What "other nations" is he denigrating?

If you don't like "denigrating," because maybe it's not exactly the right word, would you agree that Trump has not been shy to criticize the actions, policies, or people (in the case of Mexico) of other countries? It seems easy to pick out the nations he has come down on, as is his right. Top of the head: China, Germany, Australia, Mexico, Japan, Britain. His silence toward, not to say his positive review of, Russia is therefore hard to figure out. His attitude flies in the face of the appraisal of Russia or the S.U. by almost every current and past member of his party. Indeed, you'd have to go back to the old Communist sympathizers of the 50s to find folks giving these kinds of compliments to that country.

I say this is strange. But It's not uniquely strange, because Trump has company in his coterie as well as in Europe (especially in France, I gather). So it's phenomenon needing to be explained, not solely a quirk of Trump.

Is Trump denigrating Mexico for wanting to secure the border? A right that every single autonomous nation on the planet has?

I didn't imply that there aren't legitimate problems to deal with on the southern border. I don't agree that completing the border wall is a good way to deal with them.

Did the US denigrate Muslim dominated countries by suspending immigration for 7 of them?
Here's a list of Muslim dominated countries where immigration was not suspended for 90 days:

Is the fact that the travel ban affects only 7 Muslim-majority countries something in its favor? Not that I can see. This is still a major policy initiative that had a dramatic impact while it was active, so it needs to be judged on merits, and I see none. What has it accomplished, and what will it accomplish if it's revived? The remark about the botched rollout is true as far as it goes, but more importantly the conception was botched.

I'm an Independent that didn't vote for Trump. He's not the statesman we need and is too unfiltered and unorthodox. Clinton wasn't the answer either. She was just a vote for business as usual. CNN colluding with her by sharing the questions in advance prior to the debate is something I didn't forget. That and the email scandal. I don't exactly consider her to be a moral upgrade.

I'm not sensing you hold Trump fully responsible for the results of his disregard for norms and his recklessness. Just an impression.

I'm certainly not jumping on the Left's bandwagon. This version of the Left is NOT classical liberalism which I have great respect for.

As I understand it, classical liberalism is conservatism, from today's perspective. The labels shift over time and become confusing. Who would you say embodies classical liberalism?

The Left still doesn't get it: it lost because of its water-downed identity politics, which really is nothing more than the politics of narcissism.

I don't have an argument against that. I do see identity politics in Trump's victory, though, and wonder if it's possible to have an election where that's not involved.

DWill wrote: Trump has not been shy to criticize the actions, policies, or people (in the case of Mexico) of other countries? It seems easy to pick out the nations he has come down on, as is his right. Top of the head: China, Germany, Australia, Mexico, Japan, Britain.

In all these cases, Trump’s criticism of these nations has been principled. Mexico wants to continue to send illegal immigrants to the USA. Australia stitched up a loaded hand grenade with Obama to send Muslim refugees to the US. China is unscrupulous on trade. Other nations have been free riding on defence.

DWill wrote: His silence toward, not to say his positive review of, Russia is therefore hard to figure out. His attitude flies in the face of the appraisal of Russia or the S.U. by almost every current and past member of his party.

There is a good article in the UK Financial Times this week that makes the following analysis from their foreign editor. Trump’s strategic vision is a global war against Islamic fascism, with his inaugural address pledging to defend the “civilised world” — not the “free world”. The Trump team’s sympathy with Putin’s Russia and hostility to Merkel’s Germany are based on thinking of the west as synonymous with Judeo-Christian civilisation, supporting Putin’s wars against Islamo-fascism in Chechnya and Syria. By contrast, Merkel’s willingness to admit more than a million mostly Muslim refugees into Germany make America’s alt-right regard her as a traitor to western civilisation. President Trump has called the German chancellor’s refugee policy a “catastrophic” error.

DWill wrote: Indeed, you'd have to go back to the old Communist sympathizers of the 50s to find folks giving these kinds of compliments to that country.

Comparing Trump to communist sympathisers is ridiculous. Trump is a hard headed realist with a focus on American interests, not a useful idiot for Putin.

DWill wrote: Is the fact that the travel ban affects only 7 Muslim-majority countries something in its favor? Not that I can see. This is still a major policy initiative that had a dramatic impact while it was active, so it needs to be judged on merits, and I see none. What has it accomplished, and what will it accomplish if it's revived? The remark about the botched rollout is true as far as it goes, but more importantly the conception was botched.

The travel ban was a shot across the bows for the global war against islamofascism. It was a signal that Trump supports Huntington’s clash of civilizations theory of history, and will endeavour to define and support Judeo-Christian culture against the threat of Islam.

DWill wrote: I do see identity politics in Trump's victory

Indeed. The pervasive dominance within postmodern society of the ethical values of cultural relativism and denigration of Western Civilization, as seen in Hillary’s deplorable blunder, is a problem that energises the identity of Trump’s supporters.
It will be interesting how Trump deals with Israel. I personally think his support for Jerusalem as capital of Israel is good news. Proportionally, Jews are 5000 times more likely than Muslims to hold science Nobel Prizes. The anti-Semitism dominating the United Nations is based on envy, error and malice. The Palestinians should say enough already about the politics that hold them in poverty. The Islamic world can learn a lot more from Israel than from the Koran. That all means respecting and defining modern identity without the progressive cultural cringe towards backward ideologies.

Robert Tulip wrote:

DWill wrote: Trump has not been shy to criticize the actions, policies, or people (in the case of Mexico) of other countries? It seems easy to pick out the nations he has come down on, as is his right. Top of the head: China, Germany, Australia, Mexico, Japan, Britain.

In all these cases, Trump’s criticism of these nations has been principled. Mexico wants to continue to send illegal immigrants to the USA. Australia stitched up a loaded hand grenade with Obama to send Muslim refugees to the US. China is unscrupulous on trade. Other nations have been free riding on defence.

Would there be no opportunity, then, for "principled criticism" of aggression towards Crimea and Ukraine, support of the brutal Assad regime, crony capitalism of the worst sort, extra-judicial killings, and subversion of our election? I'll come right out and ask you: do you agree with the neo-Russophiles that Russia should escape criticism?

There is a good article in the UK Financial Times this week that makes the following analysis from their foreign editor. Trump’s strategic vision is a global war against Islamic fascism, with his inaugural address pledging to defend the “civilised world” — not the “free world”. The Trump team’s sympathy with Putin’s Russia and hostility to Merkel’s Germany are based on thinking of the west as synonymous with Judeo-Christian civilisation, supporting Putin’s wars against Islamo-fascism in Chechnya and Syria. By contrast, Merkel’s willingness to admit more than a million mostly Muslim refugees into Germany make America’s alt-right regard her as a traitor to western civilisation. President Trump has called the German chancellor’s refugee policy a “catastrophic” error.

That gets close to the reasons for Trump's refusal to speak out against anything Putin does. Putin has launched a nativist-nationalist revival in Russia, with great success. The pitiable Russian public has thus ignored how rapacious is their country's leadership. Trump also hews to nativist nationalism with the same nostalgic flavor of turning the clock back to around 1950, when America was great. So there is a natural reluctance to criticize soul mates. The job for our country now is to oppose him if he tries to take more pages from Putin's book, especially with regard to corruption.

Robert Tulip wrote:

DWill wrote:Indeed, you'd have to go back to the old Communist sympathizers of the 50s to find folks giving these kinds of compliments to that country.

Comparing Trump to communist sympathisers is ridiculous. Trump is a hard headed realist with a focus on American interests, not a useful idiot for Putin.

I compared him with the old comm-symps on the trait of his positive valuation of Russia. That's the point you should have tried to refute.

The travel ban was a shot across the bows for the global war against islamofascism. It was a signal that Trump supports Huntington’s clash of civilizations theory of history, and will endeavour to define and support Judeo-Christian culture against the threat of Islam.

How much of that is analysis and how much is support for such a purpose? Preventing ordinary people from traveling to and from the U.S. would seem a weird means of combatting terrorism. On Huntington, there is a good case to be made that parts of his thesis are simply wrong.

Indeed. The pervasive dominance within postmodern society of the ethical values of cultural relativism and denigration of Western Civilization, as seen in Hillary’s deplorable blunder, is a problem that energises the identity of Trump’s supporters.

Come on, Clinton's political blunder had nothing to do with the forces you identify.

It will be interesting how Trump deals with Israel. I personally think his support for Jerusalem as capital of Israel is good news. Proportionally, Jews are 5000 times more likely than Muslims to hold science Nobel Prizes. The anti-Semitism dominating the United Nations is based on envy, error and malice. The Palestinians should say enough already about the politics that hold them in poverty. The Islamic world can learn a lot more from Israel than from the Koran. That all means respecting and defining modern identity without the progressive cultural cringe towards backward ideologies.

There is scant evidence of progressives with any clout favoring the "backward ideology" of Islamism. It would be stupid for Trump to go along with Netanyahu's dream of moving the capital. That would only incite fundamentalists in Israel who believe that the Bible should prescribe politics. There was a full-page ad in a newspaper supporting the move, with the headline, "Walk with King David." What rubbish.

Here are my thoughts and opnions, Dwill;

This goes beyond Trump's inability or unwillingness to be even-handed. The entire body politic and our politically naive, spoiled citizens lack any sufficient objectivity.
The new left has only now bothered to take notice of how badly politics has become in America. They've entered into the public square with no principles and are grossly unaware of how their party has behaved over the years. This isn't partisan politics from the left. It's ideological politics.


The American media is largely a left wing propaganda machine that no longer holds to any concept of objectivity. During the entire campaign the media decried violent incidents by Trump supporters, but now say or do little to condemn the violence and bullying committed at anti-Trump demonstrations.

Throughout most of the campaign Clinton and the democrats were so certain of victory they literally demanded a public promise from Trump and his entire base to that he and his "deplorables" would accept Clinton's imminent victory. Clinton did herself no favors by unabashedly labeling American CITIZENS deplorable if they so happened to not support electing her president. Just who exactly is it that's NOT accepting the nomination and behaving deplorably now? The reason(s) given are that the election was hacked and influenced. Despite our INTEL Agencies stating there was undue influence, no actual evidence has been offered that it was. Meanwhile, everyone seems to have forgotten how media outlets like CNN tried to influence the election in Clinton's favor.

Why does Trump have to use the same methods Obama used to get tough with Russia? Was Obama successful with his dealings with Putin? How so? Do sanctions ever do anything other than punish more people other than the intended target?

Why must we now be tough with China but lenient with Cuba - a country that has been governed by a total communist authoritarian despot for decades ?

Why can Obama deport hundreds and thousands of illegal immigrants at such a prolific rate that he was crowned by immigration activist groups "The Deporter in Chief", but as soon as Trump begins to use the very same tools left my Obama to deport illegal aliens with criminal records, the left and the media denounce Trump as a tyrant, and call his supporters racists?

Why can Obama suspend refugees from Iraq (true, in not as sweeping a fashion) to examine our vetting process without hardly anyone even noticing, but when Trump attempts a similar action the backlash and outrage becomes extreme? Everyone HAS to hear how immoral it is.

This is more than just the usual hypocrisy that's part of politics. It's extreme mistrust, disbelief, and a total abandonment of principles of any kind. The left has become so unbalanced they've resorted to forcing an agenda on the entire country.

Many of Obama's policies had a dramatic influence on people's lives. Frankly, most all of America's foreign policies have had dramatic impact on people's lives throughout the world for the past 60 years (again, read Chomsky). Why is everyone on the left just now putting on their capes to become moral champions?

BTW, Trump is not a Republican. He had to fight the entire republican establishment tooth and nail during the primaries to get the nomination. He's a populist that won the election playing by rules that Clinton also willfully played by, and strategized accordingly. The rules have been in place since 1787. No one began seriously bitching about them until the Democrat's presumptuous arrogance that another democrat would be crowned king got deflated.


I've always been center-left. But now in light of how the new left have been behaving, I'd be ashamed to align myself with even an ounce of their partisan ideology.
I find this entire "NOTMYPRESIDENT" hashtag movement to be utterly disgraceful and a further embarrassment to this country. Our politics were poisoned long ago. People were just too busy with their reality TV shows to notice, until an reality tv celebrity won the White House. No everyone is suddenly properly informed and a defender of freedom for the entire world.

Americans have become fat and politically naive, and stupid.
The entire world is laughing at us, and I don't blame them.