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National Health Care.

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johnson1010
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haha,

i believe it is just Michael moore. Leave out the cock. It sounds... suggestive.

Sicko exposed me to details about health systems that i was not familiar with. The media i was talking about was mostly Faux news and other cable "news" channels.
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Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

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Chris OConnor

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Penelope, your posts are so helpful. I appreciate you helping us understand the pros and cons of the UK system.
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Penelope

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johnson said:

i believe it is just Michael moore. Leave out the cock. It sounds... suggestive.
Freudian slip??? :oops:
Chris said:

Penelope, your posts are so helpful. I appreciate you helping us understand the pros and cons of the UK system.
Just so long as I'm not boring you all. Those to whom it would not be profitable to set up an NHS can warp the facts. To be honest, we didn't realise how great the system was until we saw 'Sicko'.

I do remember my Mum's great admiration for those Labour politicians who set up the NHS though. That would be in the days when people admired and trusted their MPs. I often remember how she used to say, 'Mr Bevan' with such great reverence in her voice. Recently I read a biography of 'Mr Bevan' written by Michael Foot. Both of these were Labour politicians of the 1940-50's. It is a book by a man who can write well, about a man who was worth writing about.
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johnson1010
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no doubt, America needs to take the profit motivation out of caring for the sick.

I go back to the example of the Fire fighters who would extort you for all you own in order to save your property.

That is EXACTLY what happens with health care in america.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
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Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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It does sound like dog-eat-dog. However, I do maintain that people are the same the world over - given the oportunity. To do good or ill.

I don't know whether this might interest you:-

http://www.labour.org.uk/history_of_the_labour_party

When I attended college recently to do a course called - Advanced Literacy - we did American Studies. It is felt that by looking at our History, and by looking at the History of other countries - we could come to better understand what happens in our own country and times.

A bit like the TV Series 'Mash' which was ostensibly about the Korean War but really, was talking about the issues raised by the War in Vietnam.

It is difficult to see what is happening to a Country whilst you are living in the times - much easier to make sense of it with hindsight.

I would be surprised if all firemen were as mercenary as the ones you describe. We certainly have doctors (and dentists) who choose to stay working within the NHS, even though they could earn much more working in the private sector. Of course, most do both and work for the NHS but also act as consultants to private practices. Ho Hum.....
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.

He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....

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Brotherska
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Hi Johnston:

Is it common for persons in the US who need emergency care (e.g. after an accident) to be refused care because they lack health insurance? I know that such a notion is promoted by Hollywood movies, but is it factual? Please do not rely on Hollywood or satirists to educate you.

Regards.
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No, you arent turned away by the emergency department.

They stabilize you, and send you packing. Then.... you get completely raped with an outrageously huge bill.

Got cancer? Good luck getting any health care for your terminal, lethal, disease at the emergency ward.

Got diabetes? No help for you in emergency. Got a detached retina? Going blind? No help for you in emergency.

Emergency wards STABILIZE you, then turn you loose and wish you good luck. Don't even pretend that this is an acceptable alternative to real health care.

Also, what movies are you watching where the emergency ward doesnt take in accident victims?
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
ajuarbe
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I read an article by Thomas Sowell the other day. He said that in the US black women had a higher infant mortality rate than white women in the US. Of course politicians would lead you to believe this is due to economic disparity, but Mexican women had a lower infant mortality rate than white women.

The point is that one of the major problems in the US is our behavior. Yes I know some diseases come out of no where like cancer. I know people who have died of cancer and it is not pretty, but a lot of the things Americans are being treated for could be prevented. We have obesity and all the health problems that come along with it. We are way less active and our diets are the worst ever.

I am not against reforming health care, but just like the school systems in this country until we change the attitudes of the kids no amount of money will fix the schools. The same I think goes for Americans in general until we start living healthy we cannot expect health care to be affordable.
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Kevin
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Brotherska wrote:Hi Johnston:

Is it common for persons in the US who need emergency care (e.g. after an accident) to be refused care because they lack health insurance? I know that such a notion is promoted by Hollywood movies, but is it factual? Please do not rely on Hollywood or satirists to educate you.

Regards.
Emergency rooms have to treat anyone who shows up. They also feel the need to charge their patients. This is often a futile exercise.This is why hospitals are refusing to include emergency wards in new hospitals and are closing down the ones currently/recently in existence.

And besides, emergency wards make for a lousy health care model.
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President Camacho

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A national health insurance system does not seem a bad idea if it is used to foster competition.

I don't watch much T.V. but anything having to do with Socialism or government run programs strikes me as inefficient but usually necessary. There always seems a way to do it better which neither side Democrat or Republican can figure out. Dependence on a single entity whether company or government is a horrible idea. It makes for weak people that are easily subject to abuse. Worse, it actually fosters in the population weakness, compliance, toleration for abuse, acknowledgment of low self worth, dependency... the list goes on and the country as a whole suffers.

For education the government is in the right but in my opinion it has stopped short of putting more power into the hands of individuals to choose for their offspring the best course of education appropriate for their means and their expectations. It also, unfairly, imposes the same taxes to those without children.

I don't think having universal health care is a bad idea. I fear the execution will be lacking and that a system will be created in which our bogus and primitive two party system will take the position of abolishing it or pumping more funds into it but not improving it.

I don't think the plastic surgery should have been paid for by your countrymen, P. Your epilepsy is different. I would be ashamed to FORCE someone else to pay for my elective surgery and I have cauliflower ear. But because you're within the system it's ok. It has made it ok. No bad feelings should be felt - you've done nothing wrong... and yet wrong has been done. The system is making people comfortable with taking.

I also don't think that wealth should be taken from Tom and given to Jimmy so that Jimmy's wife may have another child. That's absurd.

I'm also of a very healthy age with a good job that offers health insurance. I feel no need to be FORCED to pay out of pocket for the care of my fellow man. When I am reaching my 50's, then you can be assured I'll change my tune because it'll be more profitable for me then. I'll be a special interest looking out for my needs and take from those, who don't even know my name, time from their life. I'll have them slave for me so that I can have less expensive health care. It will be a fine plan and one in which I will pursue for my financial benefit.

The abuses this system will be subject shouldn't take away from the good that it will do. Universal health care is a noble idea. For those who eat unhealthy, smoke, do drugs, don't properly exercise - it will be a godsend.

Why can't there just be a way of lowering costs rather than shifting wealth. Large corporations and large government is not the answer. There needs to be a way of lowering costs for all.

One might be to allow doctors to practice medicine without being licensed. It sounds crazy but it would allow the poor to receive medical attention from someone they could afford. Why not that? Lousy unlicensed doctors could still be subject to the law.

This would also decrease the power that colleges have and lower costs to attend school.

I'm not against a government sponsored program to help the health care system make some shift in a better direction.

I think what needs to be proven to me, and it probably easily can be, that this system will save the country economically in other ways. That people spend more on health care coverage on the average than with the new plan and that productivity per person will increase will quickly win my vote. Then, like universal education, I will reluctantly be on board.
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