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The Secret Garden: Chapters 13, 14 and 15 
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Do I dare, do I dare to turn again upon the stair........

Who am I do disagree with Milton.....

But I don't see hatred and depression as equal to the power of love....

It is like lighting a small candle in a dark cave. The cave may be a huge area of darkness.....but that little candle will create light, none-the-less.

If we don't see love and affection demonstrated, we don't know how to do it or even feel it.

Hatred and depression seem to be natural to us.....we don't need to learn it.

The nature/nurture debate....innit?

Thanks Tom.
Love Pen


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Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:28 pm
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I have alot of friends who come from families who have never heard or understood the word "broke". Mom and Dad bought them whatever they wanted such as that shiny new toy that hit the market, their first car, their first house, their college education, etc. I come from a family with five children with one income under $20k. We knew what the word "broke" meant. It wasn't less than $3k in the bank, it was under $20 or sometimes overdrawn. But we always had something they didn't...love. My friends were always shocked that no matter what happened my family stayed together. My parents emotional adopted alot of my and my siblings friends because of the lack of love in their life. I currently have six to seven adopted brother and sisters in my extended family.

I think that Mary, who was given whatever her heart desired, saw that material things to not matter when it comes to family. She saw that with Martha and Dickon's family. She extended that love to the garden and later to Colin, who through sheer love and will to have his father see him through different lovely eyes. Love, I believe, is richer and more desirable than money.


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Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:41 pm
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One more post ought to do it.

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Well, I think I have seen love at work in wealthy families as much as in poor families.

Although sometimes wealthy people think they can fill up the emotional gap with material 'things'.

There is an emotional gap- a feeling of emptiness - a feeling of lack......until we encounter the people who show us how to give in order to receive........and then there is a feeling of abundance......

How difficult.....this is to put into words.......but this authoress did it......beautifully.


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Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:07 pm
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Thomas Hood wrote:
Penelope wrote:
Mary then went and infected Colin......love, I think, is just infectious.
Well, unfortunately anger, hatred, and depression are infectious too. Now, which spiritual force could be stronger? :) Milton seems to think they're almost balanced -- win some, lose some.
How nice to mix Paradise Lost with The Secret Garden. Tom, I disagree with you here on Milton. There is the tradition via Blake which sees Satan as like a secret hero, but this is superficial and wrong. Milton presents a seductive and fascinating portrayal of the power of evil, as part of a broader deep cosmology that says this wicked temptation is hollow and can never provide a sustainable basis for life. Hence at the moment of Satan's announcement of triumph to the demons in hell, Satan and his minions are turned into hissing snakes and left with ash in their mouths to illustrate that God has all the real power. The question gets back to the ancient debate between Christianity and the Manichean religion, which held that there are two equal cosmic principals at war with each other, good versus evil. However, as Augustine noted in his conversion from Manichaeism to Christianity, evil is not itself a sustainable original cosmic principle, but only exists as a corruption of something already existing that is naturally good. Evil can amass immense power, but is always pointed towards a path to destruction, whereas good is pointed towards a path to creation. So, it may appear that good and evil are almost balanced, or even that evil is triumphant, but the real final triumph can only be with a principle that is in harmony with the universe, ie good. The problem for humanity is that evil may well have the power to cause our extinction, in which case the triumph of good would occur in the silence of the graveyard. Christianity holds out the hope that the material world is good and can be redeemed and transformed into unity with the divine spirit of love. This sense of redemption through nature is perhaps the most beautiful lesson of The Secret Garden. It does though open a problem for Milton, in that the snake as a good natural creature is badly slandered by his use of it, pace Genesis, as a symbol for evil. Theosophy departed from Christianity on this score, seeing the church tradition as infected by fallen false consciousness and recognising that dominion over nature requires humble love of nature.



Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:43 pm
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