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The religion of climate change

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Interbane

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Re: The religion of climate change

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ant wrote:I think laymen that are on the bandwagon are emotionally motivated. They want to be recognized as the people that are "fighting the good fight" the "smart ones."
I think every human is emotionally motivated. Name one person who isn't, on even a single topic, no matter how obscure. And those who are on the side with the truth are in fact fighting the good fight, are they not?

You are part of a bandwagon, whether you realize it or not. Even if your stated position is agnostic, that is a stance that has a slew of arguments which support it, arguments formulated by others, adopted by yourself.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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ant

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Re: The religion of climate change

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I agree that every human being is subject to a certain degree of emotional motivation and persuasion.
Particularly when the topics are hot and rhetoric is flying everywhere.

I do think people are more likely to be emotionally aroused when a herd mentality is created.
And thats precisely what this very publicized climate change arena has created.
The emotional power would draw and dupe on two fronts: the experts and the public.
A herd always draws more chargers than a small band.

Additionally cultural attitudes can and do influence scientist's attitudes and their work.

Herd mentality can lead countless people astray. Even bright people that do not realize they are being manipulated by their own emotions. Brilliance like that of Freeman Dyson can take a step back and evaluate the issue with far greater objectivity than members of the herd.
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Re: The religion of climate change

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Comment from Freeman Dyson
Freeman Dyson wrote:On climate science, I recommend “Cool It: The Skeptical Environmentalist’s Guide to Global Warming,” by Bjorn Lomborg. On science and religion, “The Varieties of Religious Experience,” by William James. Lomborg is an economist, and James was a psychologist. Both books were written by skeptics, with understanding and respect for the beliefs that they were questioning. The reason why climate science is controversial is that it is both a science and a religion. Belief is strong, even when scientific evidence is weak.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/books ... 84bc78ba0a
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ant

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Re: The religion of climate change

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http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Movie-Tie-Ed ... 0307741109
Bjorn Lomborg argues that many of the elaborate and staggeringly expensive actions now being considered to meet the challenges of global warming ultimately will have little impact on the world’s temperature. He suggests that rather than focusing on ineffective solutions that will cost us trillions of dollars over the coming decades, we should be looking for smarter, more cost-effective approaches (such as massively increasing our commitment to green energy R&D) that will allow us to deal not only with climate change but also with other pressing global concerns, such as malaria and HIV/AIDS. And he considers why and how this debate has fostered an atmosphere in which dissenters are immediately demonized.
Sounds interesting
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Re: The religion of climate change

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Ant wrote:
The point is that no evidence is likely to convince you otherwise.
This wounds me deeply, I have managed though, to keep my head above the ocean of my grief.
Ant wrote:
At the same time I can support the need to not continue polluting our environment.
I see that you and I are very much on the same side here. :shock: No, Its not at all that shocking is it, thoughtful people with like minds and all. The consensus on pollution as an issue that needs to be dealt with seems rather complete, rarely is there any single breed running with the herd where pollution is concerned. In the case of pollution a causal chain seems apparent.

What's the next logical steep then?

Could be identifying some dynamic thinkers and asking them what they think, Freeman Dyson comes to mind as one such dynamo, So we say, "Hey, Freeman, What do you think we should do next?" "First thing", says Freeman, "is don't panic, we have not reached the alarming stage of a Greenhouse Effect." (a very agreeable thing to say IMO :) ) "what we can do, is keep our eye's open, keep developing more accuracy in our measurements, implement new technologies to reduce the amounts of greenhouse gases man is putting in the atmosphere, implementation doesn't have to happen over night, as not all current technologies are economically prudent, plus some good technologies haven't even been invented yet, fifty years from now, we'll be doing wonderful things, fools rush in and all that."

With this imagined conversation am I far off the mark? I don't think so. Use Ants links, there are very good source materials from the Dyson one especially.

Even the non-consensus, in a way support the general consensus of "Greenhouse Gases=Bad for the environment.

The next logical step then to my thinking, has to be some form of Carbon Capture and Sequestration, but don't take my word for it, I'm just a very minor player in the fandom of clean air.

Carbon Capture and Sequestration, is a process. Carbon, which is just one of many gases that make the Greenhouse Effect, is the commodity of that process, (its like mining money from the air) Those technologies that are way to expensive today wont be in years to come, and future technologies will be the promise of an even deeper future.

As to the politics; It really should be an apolitical issue for those of us outsiders, My interest in climate change, is to understand a very important issue, one that we as "the people" should be in control of. On this issue, and any others for that matter, we should be ahead of the politicians and not the other way round.

I participate in the debate, not to score points, but because I think there is something to the topic worth knowing. No single source contains all the knowledge we'll need to get ahead of egomaniacs and money grubbers.
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Re: The religion of climate change

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Interbane wrote:
I think every human is emotionally motivated. Name one person who isn't, on even a single topic, no matter how obscure. And those who are on the side with the truth are in fact fighting the good fight, are they not?
Fight the Good Fight, Triumph!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT1ircqQklo
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Re: The religion of climate change

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Taylor,

What specific evidence that refutes anthropogenic global warming is it that you disagree with and why?
Last edited by ant on Thu May 14, 2015 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Interbane

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Re: The religion of climate change

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There is specific evidence that refutes climate change?
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Re: The religion of climate change

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What specific counter arguments do you disagree with and why?



God did it.

Answer: there is no God, so man must be causing global warming.


Is that your starting point, Interbane?
Last edited by ant on Fri May 15, 2015 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Interbane

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Re: The religion of climate change

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ant wrote:What specific counter arguments do you disagree with and why?



God did it.

Answer: there is no God, so man must be causing global warming.


Is that your starting point, Interbane?
Do you have a source for the specific counter arguments? Or could you give me an example? The goddidit one obviously doesn't fly, and the criticisms PJ listed weren't refutations, only concerns with data collection.

You'll have to meet me halfway here.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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