Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:01 am





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 172 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
The Rattle Bag: The A Poems 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I can has reading?

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2954
Location: Leesburg, VA
Thanks: 481
Thanked: 398 times in 302 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
Penelope wrote:
Oh Saffron, Welcome Back!! :focus:

As I came in by Fiddich-side,


Way fun to read this poem, more fun than the subject would warrant.



Sun May 29, 2011 6:47 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
One more post ought to do it.

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3256
Location: Cheshire, England
Thanks: 329
Thanked: 675 times in 521 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United Kingdom (uk)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
Quote:
Saffron wrote:

Question for you, realiz, what made you think the dancer was old?


I thought it was an old man too, so I went back to re-read. I think it is the way they are sitting together,the two people, and one in the kitchen (making a cup of tea?) he was in a soiled vest, so they are comfortable with one another in the way that, I feel, people of the same generation would be. Also, his mother was 'surprised' by the perfect pirouette. How clever to conjur up such an image. Like a photograph, a little snapshot in time. I'm going to look up more of this man's poetry now, since Saffron says many of his are like this.

Thankyou.


_________________
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.

He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....

Rafael Sabatini


Sun May 29, 2011 6:54 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I can has reading?

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2954
Location: Leesburg, VA
Thanks: 481
Thanked: 398 times in 302 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
Penelope wrote:
As Much as You Can
by CP Cavafy


I do like it....and its sentiments. And I'm sure DWill agrees with this philosophy.... :wink: [/i]


I believe you are right, Penny. DW has been rather scarce around the poetry forum these days. Wonder if he's given up poetry for the pleasures of the outdoor life.



Sun May 29, 2011 7:04 am
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Platinum Contributor

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6338
Location: Luray, Virginia
Thanks: 1839
Thanked: 2028 times in 1536 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
I haven't kept up with all the poems, because I'm trying to steer away from the internet in general for a while. I'm sorry for my lack of participation in this project, but most of the poems I have read, and I compliment the editors on their choices and Penelope for choosing the book. If they can put a somewhat obscure but deserving poet like William Stafford in, they're all right and they know their poetry. I saw Stafford read and talk about poetry when he came to Colo. State when I was studenting there. He was a small, soft-spoken man then in his mid-fifties who considered every word he said, and I then thought, "This is the model for a poet." Nothing academic about him, and he wrote most often about the outdoors, as he did in the poem above about the bomb-testing site. Not afraid to make a moral point in a poem, either, which I think should be allowed a poet. I hope it's okay if I slip in one of my favorites of his.

Returned To Say

When I face north a lost Cree
on some new shore puts a moccasin down,
rock in the light and noon for seeing,
he in a hurry and I beside him

It will be a long trip; he will be a new chief;
we have drunk new water from an unnamed stream;
under little dark trees he is to find a path
we both must travel because we have met.

Henceforth we gesture even by waiting;
there is a grain of sand on his knifeblade
so small he blows it and while his breathing
darkens the steel his eyes become set

And start a new vision: the rest of his life.
We will mean what he does. Back of this page
the path turns north. We are looking for a sign.
Our moccasins do not mark the ground.

Stafford died in 1993.



Sun May 29, 2011 11:11 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
One more post ought to do it.

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3256
Location: Cheshire, England
Thanks: 329
Thanked: 675 times in 521 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United Kingdom (uk)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
DWill, I think I understand your inclination to avoid the internet, but I was quite moved by the poem you just posted, probably because it involves native American Indians.....and I am always drawn to anything involving that race.

Do you think you could go through the poem line-by-line for us? Would you mind doing that?

Then clear off if you must!!

Only teasing.... :kiss:


_________________
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.

He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....

Rafael Sabatini


Sun May 29, 2011 12:14 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
One more post ought to do it.

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3256
Location: Cheshire, England
Thanks: 329
Thanked: 675 times in 521 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United Kingdom (uk)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
Aunt Julia

Aunt Julia spoke Gaelic
very loud and very fast.
I could not answer her —
I could not understand her.

She wore men's boots
when she wore any.
— I can see her strong foot,
stained with peat,
paddling with the treadle of the spinningwheel
while her right hand drew yarn
marvellously out of the air.

Hers was the only house
where I've lain at night
in a box bed, listening to
crickets being friendly.

She was buckets
and water flouncing into them.
She was winds pouring wetly
round house-ends.
She was brown eggs, black skirts
and a keeper of threepennybits
in a teapot.

Aunt Julia spoke Gaelic
very loud and very fast.
By the time I had learned
a little, she lay
silenced in the absolute black
of a sandy grave
at Luskentyre.
But I hear her still, welcoming me
with a seagull's voice
across a hundred yards
of peatscrapes and lazybeds
and getting angry, getting angry
with so many questions
unanswered.



Norman MacCaig (1910 - 1996)

http://www.readingroom.spl.org.uk/class ... gibson.htm


_________________
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.

He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....

Rafael Sabatini


Sun May 29, 2011 3:38 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I can has reading?

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2954
Location: Leesburg, VA
Thanks: 481
Thanked: 398 times in 302 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
Penelope wrote:
Aunt Julia
Norman MacCaig (1910 - 1996)


A beautiful and loving poem. I love the following stanza -

She was buckets
and water flouncing into them.

She was winds pouring wetly
round house-ends.
She was brown eggs, black skirts
and a keeper of threepennybits
in a teapot.

The bolded line strikes such a deep emotional chord with me, I can feel the tears burn at the corners of my eyes. I had a great-aunt Julia and she spoke Hungarian. She was very tall and mysterious.



Sun May 29, 2011 3:52 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
One more post ought to do it.

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3256
Location: Cheshire, England
Thanks: 329
Thanked: 675 times in 521 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United Kingdom (uk)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
I feel the same, Saffron. When I was a little girl, to the age of 17, I lived on the moors and during my childhood, when Mum had to go away, I stayed with Aunt Cissie, who had five children of her own, and I was the youngest. I stayed with her for what seemed weeks on end, although it wouldn't have been for such long spells really. I never fretted. I was always happy with her and she was a real 'Aunt Julia' as she had a smallholding with hens and a few animals and she wore heavy shoes and 'serviceable' clothing. She was always farming or building walls, never cooking or cleaning. It hurts that I have no photograph of her. I understand those final lines:

and getting angry, getting angry
with so many questions
unanswered.


_________________
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.

He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....

Rafael Sabatini


Sun May 29, 2011 4:49 pm
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Platinum Contributor

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6338
Location: Luray, Virginia
Thanks: 1839
Thanked: 2028 times in 1536 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
Yeah, I agree about the Norman McCaig poem. He's been seen once or twice before in the book, I think. He didn't make the top 500, but that just shows how many fine poems such an approach misses.

(Penelope, I'll say some more later about the Stafford poem, though I don't know what it means. Thanks for asking about it.)



Sun May 29, 2011 6:49 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
One more post ought to do it.

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3256
Location: Cheshire, England
Thanks: 329
Thanked: 675 times in 521 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United Kingdom (uk)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
"Autobahnmotorwayautoroute"

Around the gleaming map of Europe
A gigantic wedding ring
Slowly revolves through Londonoslowestberlin
Athensromemadridparis and home again,
Slowly revolving.

That's no ring,
It's the great European Limousine,
The Famous Goldenwhite Circular Car

Slowly revolving

All the cars in Europe have been welded together
Into a mortal unity,
A roundaboutgrandtourroundabout
Trafficjamroundaboutagain,
All the cars melted together,
Citroenjaguarbugattivolkswagenporschedaf.

Each passenger, lugging his
Colourpiano, frozenmagazines, high-fidog,
Clambers over the seat in front of him
Towards what looks like the front of the car.
They are dragging behind them
Worksofart, lampshades made of human money,
Instant children and exploding clocks.
But the car's a circle
No front no back
No driver no steering wheel no windscreen no brakes no

Adrian Mitchell

Refreshingly different: I think I like it.


_________________
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.

He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....

Rafael Sabatini


Mon May 30, 2011 1:45 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Better Thread Count than Your Best Linens

Silver Contributor

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 626
Thanks: 42
Thanked: 72 times in 56 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
Quote:
Question for you, realiz, what made you think the dancer was old?


After I wrote this I reread the poem and realized that it did not say anything about age, but the picture in my head had been of an old man. I read what Penelope wrote and I think she said it well.

I've just returned from the weekend away, but I'll catch up tomorrow.



Mon May 30, 2011 10:58 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Better Thread Count than Your Best Linens

Gold Contributor

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 642
Thanks: 217
Thanked: 109 times in 89 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
I really liked 'Aunt Julia', he paints a very vivid picture.

Did he come from the city to visit his Aunt?
I am trying to figure out why
"Hers was the only house
where I've lain at night
in a box bed, listening to
crickets being friendly."


_________________
~froglipz~

"I'm not insane, my mother had me tested"

Si vis pacem, para bellum: If you wish for peace, prepare for war.


Tue May 31, 2011 1:15 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
One more post ought to do it.

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3256
Location: Cheshire, England
Thanks: 329
Thanked: 675 times in 521 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United Kingdom (uk)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
Irish poet Louis MacNeice (1907-63). His father
and mother were both from the west of Ireland.
His father was a Church of Ireland clergyman.
His mother suffered gynaecological problems and
in 1913 had a mental breakdown, forcing her to
leave the family for a nursing home. A year
later, she died of tuberculosis. -- Who knows
what "gynaecological problems" meant in those
days?


Autobiography by Louis Macneice

In my childhood trees were green
And there was plenty to be seen.
Come back early or never come.

My father made the walls resound,
He wore his collar the wrong way round.
Come back early or never come.

My mother wore a yellow dress;
Gentle, gently, gentleness.
Come back early or never come.

When I was five the black dreams came;
Nothing after was quite the same.
Come back early or never come.

The dark was talking to the dead;
The lamp was dark beside my bed.
Come back early or never come.

When I woke they did not care;
Nobody, nobody was there.
Come back early or never come.

When my silent terror cried,
Nobody, nobody replied.
Come back early or never come.

I got up; the chilly sun
Saw me walk away alone.
Come back early or never come.


_________________
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.

He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....

Rafael Sabatini


Tue May 31, 2011 1:01 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Better Thread Count than Your Best Linens

Silver Contributor

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 626
Thanks: 42
Thanked: 72 times in 56 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
Quote:
A roundaboutgrandtourroundabout


It really is difficult to read words like this, but it does convey the indistictiveness of traveling high speed through a blended Europe. This was different, but just okay.

I liked Aunt Julia.

Autobiography was a little chilling. I liked the way they used the italics and separation of the repeated lines in the book.



Tue May 31, 2011 2:52 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Better Thread Count than Your Best Linens

Gold Contributor

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 642
Thanks: 217
Thanked: 109 times in 89 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: The Rattle Bag: The A Poems
"Autobiography"--Every time I look up this poem, the stanzas are in all different orders, some of them omit the 'come back early or never come' line altogether and one puts them all at the end in a row. It is disturbing and I didn't even need the blurb about his mom to know something bad happened to her in his childhood, but I'm glad its there to give me some context.


_________________
~froglipz~

"I'm not insane, my mother had me tested"

Si vis pacem, para bellum: If you wish for peace, prepare for war.


The following user would like to thank froglipz for this post:
DWill
Tue May 31, 2011 6:43 pm
Profile Email
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 172 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
How To Promote Your Book





BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2019. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank