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The NT was written in the 2nd century 
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Post Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century
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tat said:

I don't know about Paul, but Ellen G White the so-called modern prophet who started the SDA church which I was raised in, was apparently a frontal lobe epileptic. She was hit on the forehead with a rock as a young girl and she went on to have these elaborate visions, most of which came back around to reflecting images of heaven and angels that were in books contained in her personal home library.


I once read a whole book just because I heard that somewhere it describes Seventh Day Adventists in a Siberian prison camp, standing in the snow all day because they refused to work on the sabbath. It was only a brief mention, but I was impressed.

Of course, when you see 'California' anywhere, about anything, one immediately hears alarm bells.


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Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:50 pm
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Post Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century
^Don't forget Waco, either. That was a sect of SDAs, the "Branch Davidians".

And on the other point, I credit that more to the individuals rather than their religion, as similar martyr stories can be found concerning certain jews and their consecration of the sabbath.



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Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:01 pm
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Post Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century
I remember reading all about Waco when it happened. I hadn't realised that they were part of the Seventh Day Adventists......not that it makes any difference, it was still an awful tragedy.

Isn't it alarming how one charismatic man can have that effect on a whole group of people? They can't all have been just gullible.

There was that man called Jim something.....who persuaded all of those people to go into the jungle and commit suicide......some Christian sect...

Blimey....you lot are right....let's demand irrefutable proof......


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Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:25 pm
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Post Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century
I remember some big shot FBI agent who was a member of my home town church at that time. He went off to Waco and wound up leaving the SDA church when he returned from the ordeal. I remember going over to his house with my parents for dinner one evening while they tried to get him to come back to church. He wouldn't come back. I remember wondering why would anyone leave God's true church?

It wasn't until years later that I finally realized what the hell had really happened. It's completely wacked. I'm still in around a small SDA community here in Florida. My fiance's dad is pretty zealous as a matter of fact about the Sabbath and other things. Her mother too. We stone wall the whole thing and don't attend church anymore at all. The kids choose not to go, so we don't let the grand parents make them go. It's going to die off completely with their generation. It has to be done, we can't pass this evident nonsense down to the children it just wouldn't be right. The poor old folks are going to die thinking that we're all doomed to hell for not going to church, but so be it. That's on them and their own "blindness". Another few generations and the whole thing is water under the bridge.


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Last edited by tat tvam asi on Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:54 pm
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Post Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century
Vishnu wrote:
But getting back on track, you pointing this correlation out to me kind of opens my eyes a bit and makes me wonder how much of this recurring theme of seven might have been inspired by the motif you put forward earlier, of the seven spheres, etc.

The seven days of the week?
The seven candle sticks of the menorah?
The seven churches of Asia?
The seven seals?
The seven plagues?
The seven angels?
etc., etc.
We already know Josephus and Philo that folks interpreted the 12 jewels on the breast plate and 12 loaves as symbolic of the Zodiac signs.
So one has to wonder about planetary symbolism as well.
In fact, didn't some people start making menorahs with 9 candlesticks instead of 7 after we gained knowledge of 9 planets(formerly such, we'll miss you Pluto )?

And getting a little bit back to the chakras and kundalini, it's interesting that kundalini is symbolised by a coiled snake and is often referred to as the serpent energy, etc.
Because in the PT, the king is said to have swallowed seven uraei, which are winged serpents, which then formed part of his spine, which of course, it is the spine up which the kundalini travels to get to the brain and enlighten you, so... while that may be a bit of a stretch on my part, it is an interesting correlation of seven with serpents and vertebrae, etc.
"The King is a serpent, the Bull who leads, who swallowed his seven uraei and his seven neck vertebrae came into being, who gives orders to the seven enneads which hear the word of the monarch."- As per Faulkner's translation.


Yes, this is all very telling indeed Vishnu. The journey of the soul through the celestial spheres, the rising Kundalini, all playing off of the "as above so below" concept. Moving through the planetary sphere's and through the ganglionic centers are quite similar. There's a whole lecture about the soul coming down to the earth and then going back through the sphere's which is identical to the same teachings about awareness moving up and down the spine. Notice how it says that their are seven loaves of Horus in the sky and seven loaves on earth. That shows the above and below parallel in action.


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Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:41 pm
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Post Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century
"Of course, when you see 'California' anywhere, about anything, one immediately hears alarm bells."

Oh, dear Penelope what does this ever mean? What alarm bells? I think you have many mistaken ideas about the United States. Do come visit us sometime. California is a very beautiful state, very populous because of the weather and home to dear friends and my sister!

It was Jim Jones and it was New Guiana. He did not persuade them to go into the jungle to commit suicide. They all went there to find a new life and it failed. A congressman from California (that bogey man again!) went there at the behest of a constituent who was concerned about the well being of a relative and he and several other people were murdered by some members of the group. It was at this point that Jim Jones ordered the suicides of all the membership.

This and Waco serve as very vivid reminders of the danger of NOT THINKING FOR ONESELF, but putting your life actually in the hands of someone else, mythological or real.

Tat I watched that short video and I was interested to learn that the leader (forget her name. . . Mary something) was from Gorham, Maine which is nearby me. The 19th century was rife with all those new religious groups, including Mormonism, and the utopian communities like Oneida and Brook farm. While the Shakers seem to have more respect than many (the only active community is also nearby) they I think were started in the 18th century.



Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:38 pm
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Post Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century
That's right Lady. There was something in the air in the 1800's up your way spawning off new Protestant branches, odd ones at that. Weren't the shakers the product of Mary Baker Eddy? The SDA's were the product of Ellen G White. The next part of the video I posted goes into commentary from pastor Sydney Cleveland and his book White Washed: exposing the myths of Ellen G White. Interesting stuff.


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Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:24 pm
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Post Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century
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"Of course, when you see 'California' anywhere, about anything, one immediately hears alarm bells."

Oh, dear Penelope what does this ever mean? What alarm bells?


I didn't mean nuffink - I think I'll shut up now.

:t_oops:


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Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:30 am
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Post Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century
Penelope wrote:
Quote:
"Of course, when you see 'California' anywhere, about anything, one immediately hears alarm bells."

Oh, dear Penelope what does this ever mean? What alarm bells?


I didn't mean nuffink - I think I'll shut up now.

:t_oops:


Penelope when you showed so much concern for one member of this forum it surprises me that you would then carelessly insult the sizable population of California and by extension, all of us Americans! That is if any but me would notice or care!



Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:46 pm
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Post Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century
Mary Baker Eddy was the founder of the Christian Science movement. Sister Ann Lee from England founded the Shakers. As I said they still have one active community here in Maine at Sabbath Day Lake. They are of course, famous for their inventions and furniture and baskets and such. There buildings are very beautiful and spare and the interiors very sparse. Their belief system was equality between the sexes and no sexual intercourse (they increased their numbers by adopting children who were given the choice of staying or leaving when they turned 18) The popular hymn often heard (I think in Copland?) was one of the theirs. Forget the name just now.



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Post Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century
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...and by extension, all of us Americans...


"Dream of Cali-fooor-ni-caaashu-un!"
"Dream of Cali-fooor-ni-caaashu-un!"



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Post Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century
I wouldn't dream of insulting all Americans, I am more than fond of the ones I have met on here. And what I said about California was a very mild comment.

It is not mandatory to read my posts, but I will make an effort to avoid annoying you any further.


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He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....

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Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:17 pm
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