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The Mishandling Comes Shining Through!

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The Mishandling Comes Shining Through!

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Bush wants $3.5B to boost Iraq securityWASHINGTON (AP)
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Re: The Mishandling Comes Shining Through!

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How do you feel about the article? Is it such a big deal for Bush not to be able to accurately predict the future and how money will have to be allocated post-war? Seems pretty human to me.Chris "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandella
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Re: The Mishandling Comes Shining Through!

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Bush is a jackass. His cockiness is the reason. Many people, myself included KNEW this was not going to be easy. We were ridiculed by those who were riding the high-horse at the time.To me, this is just more manipulation. Pre-concieved by the administration and now being passed off as 'oops'.Bush was wrong from the beginning, now I (and many others) can sit back and grin about knowing all along what Bush & Co. said they did not...and...find a way to make this man go away.Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of PainHEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. PEdited by: misterpessimistic  at: 9/15/04 8:13 am
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Re: The Mishandling Comes Shining Through!

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From Chris:Quote:Is it such a big deal for Bush not to be able to accurately predict the future and how money will have to be allocated post-war?The State Department's Future of Iraq project and others did predict the problems. The administration ignored it.From Washington PostQuote:A passage written by Zinni voiced support for the views of retired Gen. Eric K. Shinseki, the former Army chief of staff, whose estimate that several hundred thousand troops would be needed in postwar Iraq was dismissed by the administration as wildly off the mark. "Recently, the Army chief of staff testified that we would need 300,000 troops to pacify Iraq," Zinni wrote. "Everybody in the military knew he was right. But the party line down from the Pentagon decreed that the number was half that, and he was pilloried." Zinni, 60, appeared last night on CBS's "60 Minutes" and said that staying the course in Iraq is not feasible. "The course is headed over Niagara Falls," he said. "I think it's time to change course a little bit or at least hold somebody responsible for putting you on this course." He said the current situation is the product of "poor strategic thinking" combined with "poor operational planning and execution on the ground."From The Iraq War: One Year LaterPosted March 15, 2004By Martin WalkerQuote:Could it have been different? Possibly, if the Pentagon's top officials had not been so intent on fighting turf wars in Washington that they point-blank refused to consider the 14 volumes of postwar planning prepared by the State Department's Future of Iraq project. Its key recommendations were that the Iraqi army (never fully trusted by Saddam, which is why he depended on the Republican Guard) should not be fully disbanded and the Ba'athist party should not be indiscriminately purged. Sending home hundreds of thousands of trained troops to unemployment and poverty was unwise, and the reconstruction effort sorely needed the skills of the often-apolitical engineers and teachers and administrators who were required to join the Ba'athist Party.But we now know from retired Gen. Jay Garner, the first civilian administrator of Iraq, that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told him to ignore the findings of the Iraq Project, and then told him to sack the project's director, the State Department's Tom Warrick. Garner himself was ousted within a month of victory, to be replaced by L. Paul Bremer, and the Iraqi army was forthwith disbanded and the Ba'athists purged.From Article by David Phillips, a senior fellow and deputy director of the Center for Preventive Action at the Council on Foreign Relations. He resigned as senior adviser from the US Department of State last September.Quote:Pentagon officials shelved existing postwar plans for the reconstruction of Iraq - yet had no plan of their own. They ignored the advice of Iraqis, except Mr. Chalabi. Critical information was obscured or withheld from Congress. As a result, national interests have been ill-served, and the promise of democracy in Iraq has been betrayed.The Future of Iraq project was set up more than a year before the war and was led by the State Department. The project also involved 16 other federal agencies and hundreds of Iraqis,and cost $ 5 million. I was the architect and facilitator of the project's democratic principles working group, which Iraqis called "the mother of all working groups." It was charged with developing a strategy for the political transition after Saddam Hussein was removed from power.I know that the Future of Iraq project was no silver bullet for all of Iraq's problems. Yet the Pentagon's outright dismissal - and even undermining - of the project was one of its critical mistakes.Pentagon officials thought the endeavor was too academic and ignored its recommendations simply because it was an initiative of the State Department. As part of a bureaucratic turf battle, Pentagon civilians treated State Department colleagues with disdain and disrespect. Civilians in the Office of Secretary of Defense were scornful of diplomacy itself, which is inherently about dialogue and compromise.From Pentagon was warned over policing Iraq by Julian Borger (Guardian Unlimited)Quote:The anarchy and crime in the Iraqi streets was predicted by several panels of former ambassadors, soldiers and peacekeeping experts, who advised the Pentagon and the White House while the invasion was being planned.They urged that lessons be learned from previous US-led military interventions and a post-conflict police force be established before the war. From USA TodayQuote:The office of the secretary of Defense largely ignored position papers produced over the past year by the State Department's Future of Iraq program, which brought together about 200 Iraqi exiles to discuss reorganization after the fall of Saddam.Instead, the Pentagon early this year started a parallel operation with exiles vetted for support for Ahmad Chalabi, an exile leader close to Republican neo-conservatives and distrusted by the State Department.Pentagon civilians also vetted State Department volunteers for service in Iraq and tried to bar those considered hostile to Chalabi, State Department officials said."What went wrong was turf war in Washington," says Feisal Istrabadi, an Iraqi-American lawyer in Chicago who participated in the State Department effort to draft new laws for Iraq."The Pentagon won the (bureaucratic) war in January and shunted us off to one side on the theory that they could re-invent in two months what we had done in ten months."Quote:One Pentagon hardliner, who asked not to be named, said so-called "principals' meetings" that brought together Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell and Rice, often failed to reach decisions, leaving subordinates to improvise as they went along."We have to understand that it was the function of the NSC to insure that the interagency process worked," says Anthony Cordesman, a Middle East military expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). "Failure must be placed at the level of the NSC and the president."After going through a lot of information, I have noticed that Ahmed Chalabi is reported to be a huge factor in the after war plans. Here is an article that talks about him quite a bit from 2001 by Seymour Hersh, who broke the stories of Abu Graib and Mei Lie Massacre.THE IRAQ HAWKSby SEYMOUR M. HERSH
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Re: The Mishandling Comes Shining Through!

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I have a couple things to say about this.1. The Powell DoctrineThis was effectively ignored, but had it not been the situation on the ground in Iraq would likely be very different today. We couldn't effectively use the Powell doctrine by going it "alone" though. We don't have the ground forces to manage it in the Iraq scenario without pulling many other units NOT deployed to Iraq.This applies to how Afghanistan was handled as well. It's a shame that country's security situation is as tenuous as Iraq's but we rushed on to our next target without first securing the first.2. Flip Flopper - I don't know why the Kerry Campaign hasn't pointed out a few of Bush's flip flops - but if you'll recall Bush in his original presidential campaign was very anti-nationbuilding. He then undertook 2 campaigns in which nation building would be crucial without planning for the nation building part. In Vino Veritas
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Re: The Mishandling Comes Shining Through!

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Nice Rick!Thanks for your thoughts!Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of PainHEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P
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Mr. P

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Bush Flip Flops

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Flip FlopsThis is from my other community. 'bocamp' is an avid Bush non-supporter! His posts are very interesting.CLIPQuote:# Bush is against campaign finance reform; then he's for it.# Bush is against a Homeland Security Department; then he's for it.# Bush is against a 9/11 commission; then he's for it.# Bush is against an Iraq WMD investigation; then he's for it.# Bush is against nation building; then he's for it.# Bush is against deficits; then he's for them.# Bush is for free trade; then he's for tariffs on steel; then he's against them again.# Bush is against the U.S. taking a role in the Israeli Palestinian conflict; then he pushes for a "road map" and a Palestinian State.# Bush is for states right to decide on gay marriage, then he is for changing the constitution.Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of PainHEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P
RickU

Re: The Mishandling Comes Shining Through!

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To clarify...the Powell doctrine mandates the use of overwhelming force. Not VP Cheney's light and fast strike force. In the Powell doctrine you take and hold ground, you don't speed through it to your objective.The Powell doctrine would not have provided the lightning (can I say blitzkrieg?) assault that occured in Iraq when we invaded...but it would have secured the borders and not allowed militants to enter and establish strongholds... In Vino Veritas
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Re: The Mishandling Comes Shining Through!

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Years ago Bush opted for paper. Today, being the flip-flopper that he is, he almost always goes for plastic. Imagine that.In 1963 Bush was seen wearing a pair of red-checkered boxers. Last week, a reporter from NBC claims to have seen the waist band from a pair of Hanes briefs appear as Bush bent over to tie his running shoes. How can you explain this other than one more shining example of a flip-flop?Chris "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandella
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Re: The Mishandling Comes Shining Through!

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Chris:?Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of PainHEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P
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