• In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 789 on Tue Mar 19, 2024 5:08 am

The Human Cosmos - Ch. 1: Myth

#178: Oct. - Dec. 2021 (Non-Fiction)
User avatar
Chris OConnor

1A - OWNER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 17019
Joined: Sun May 05, 2002 2:43 pm
21
Location: Florida
Has thanked: 3511 times
Been thanked: 1309 times
Gender:
Contact:
United States of America

The Human Cosmos - Ch. 1: Myth

Unread post

The Human Cosmos - Ch. 1: Myth

Please use this thread to discuss the above referenced chapter of
The Human Cosmos: A Secret History of the Stars Hardcover by Jo Marchant.
User avatar
geo

2C - MOD & GOLD
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4779
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:24 am
15
Location: NC
Has thanked: 2198 times
Been thanked: 2200 times
United States of America

Re: The Human Cosmos - Ch. 1: Myth

Unread post

Bull No. 18
from the Hall of Bulls at Lascaux Cave.
-Geo
Question everything
User avatar
geo

2C - MOD & GOLD
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4779
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:24 am
15
Location: NC
Has thanked: 2198 times
Been thanked: 2200 times
United States of America

Re: The Human Cosmos - Ch. 1: Myth

Unread post

Here's some info about the Pleiades:

In our Northern Hemispheres skies, the Pleiades cluster is associated with the winter season. It’s easy to imagine this misty patch of icy-blue suns as hoarfrost clinging to the dome of night. Frosty November is often called the month of the Pleiades, because it’s at this time that the Pleiades shine from dusk until dawn. But you can see the Pleiades cluster in the evening sky well into April.

https://earthsky.org/favorite-star-patt ... de-renown/

I've made it my goal to check out the Pleiades one of these late evenings. According to my star app, it doesn't rise until fairly late (about 11 p.m.) Maybe we can all check it out as part of this discussion!
-Geo
Question everything
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6499
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2719 times
Been thanked: 2662 times
Contact:
Australia

Re: The Human Cosmos - Ch. 1: Myth

Unread post

geo wrote:Here's some info about the Pleiades:

In our Northern Hemispheres skies, the Pleiades cluster is associated with the winter season. It’s easy to imagine this misty patch of icy-blue suns as hoarfrost clinging to the dome of night. Frosty November is often called the month of the Pleiades, because it’s at this time that the Pleiades shine from dusk until dawn. But you can see the Pleiades cluster in the evening sky well into April.

https://earthsky.org/favorite-star-patt ... de-renown/

I've made it my goal to check out the Pleiades one of these late evenings. According to my star app, it doesn't rise until fairly late (about 11 p.m.) Maybe we can all check it out as part of this discussion!
Yes, the Pleiades are exactly on the path of the sun, so are also prominent at the same time of year in the Southern Hemisphere, where they are a summer constellation.

This looks like a really intriguing book. Marchant opens chapter one with an excellent summary of how prehistoric art used star maps as its template, starting with the story of how schoolboys in south-west France eighty years ago discovered the incredible array of beautiful prehistoric paintings in the cave of Lascaux.

This cave art shows the great antiquity of human interest in the stars. Our species first migrated from Africa to Europe about 45,000 years ago. The depiction of the Taurus constellation in the wonderful cave art of Lascaux includes the Pleiades. Looking at the stars is central to the story of how wonder and awe at the immensity and stability of visual astronomy have inspired cultural creativity.

At the moment, Venus and Mercury are very prominent in the western evening sky. Mercury is adjacent to one of the other brightest stars on the ecliptic, Spica.
User avatar
geo

2C - MOD & GOLD
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4779
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:24 am
15
Location: NC
Has thanked: 2198 times
Been thanked: 2200 times
United States of America

Re: The Human Cosmos - Ch. 1: Myth

Unread post

Robert Tulip wrote:Marchant opens chapter one with an excellent summary of how prehistoric art used star maps as its template, starting with the story of how schoolboys in south-west France eighty years ago discovered the incredible array of beautiful prehistoric paintings in the cave of Lascaux.

This cave art shows the great antiquity of human interest in the stars. Our species first migrated from Africa to Europe about 45,000 years ago. The depiction of the Taurus constellation in the wonderful cave art of Lascaux includes the Pleiades. Looking at the stars is central to the story of how wonder and awe at the immensity and stability of visual astronomy have inspired cultural creativity.
And, yet, there seems to be a hesitance to accept that the Lascaux paintings were astronomical in nature, as if it's difficult to fathom that early humans could have been this advanced. The paintings were created about about 15,000-17,000 BCE. To put this in some kind of perspective, the earliest forms of writing appeared almost 5,500 years ago. Gilgamesh was written about 2100 BCE. The Iliad was written around 700 to 750 B.C.

But when you consider that homo sapiens have been around for about 300,000 years, it doesn't seem exactly farfetched. Anatomically modern humans began to migrate out of Africa starting about 70,000-100,000 years ago. It doesn't seem implausible (to me) that the Paleolithic people would have been hugely inspired/influenced by the night sky. Marchant takes a similar stance, and provides some interesting possibilities.
Robert Tulip wrote:
At the moment, Venus and Mercury are very prominent in the western evening sky. Mercury is adjacent to one of the other brightest stars on the ecliptic, Spica.
Here on the east coast lately, Jupiter and Saturn are very prominent in the night sky, already high above the horizon by 8 p.m. or so. I'm lucky enough to live on the water and at least a couple of times a week, I go on a night kayak, drift around and stare up at the sky.
-Geo
Question everything
User avatar
Mr. P

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Has Plan to Save Books During Fire
Posts: 3826
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:16 am
19
Location: NJ
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 137 times
Gender:
United States of America

Re: The Human Cosmos - Ch. 1: Myth

Unread post

Last year was the Jupiter/Saturn conjunction... Unfortunately, it was overcast by me (New Jersey) at the apex. This is the known as the Christmas Star. Wont be seen again for 20 years. But the 2020 one was the supposedly the most brilliant one since the year 1226.

I spent most of last year tracking Saturn and Jupiter...and mars was also closest to earth at the time as well. Was an awesome year for looking up.
When you refuse to learn, you become a disease.
User avatar
Harry Marks
Bookasaurus
Posts: 1920
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:42 am
12
Location: Denver, CO
Has thanked: 2335 times
Been thanked: 1020 times
Ukraine

Re: The Human Cosmos - Ch. 1: Myth

Unread post

geo wrote: there seems to be a hesitance to accept that the Lascaux paintings were astronomical in nature, as if it's difficult to fathom that early humans could have been this advanced.

But when you consider that homo sapiens have been around for about 300,000 years, it doesn't seem exactly farfetched. Anatomically modern humans began to migrate out of Africa starting about 70,000-100,000 years ago. It doesn't seem implausible (to me) that the Paleolithic people would have been hugely inspired/influenced by the night sky. Marchant takes a similar stance, and provides some interesting possibilities.
I admit I had never heard that the stars were present in the cave, and I visited there with my sons. Probably my overall sense of awe erased some tangential mention by our guide. Somehow it seems very plausible, especially given the importance of the annual migrations which gave rise to the hunt, according to "Sapiens" by Harari. If you wanted to plot an annual return in advance, the stars would be a big help.
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6499
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2719 times
Been thanked: 2662 times
Contact:
Australia

Re: The Human Cosmos - Ch. 1: Myth

Unread post

geo wrote:Anatomically modern humans began to migrate out of Africa starting about 70,000-100,000 years ago. It doesn't seem implausible (to me) that the Paleolithic people would have been hugely inspired/influenced by the night sky. Marchant takes a similar stance, and provides some interesting possibilities.
It is intriguing to wonder about the intelligence of stone age humanity. Human brains have been about the current size for all that time, indicating the existence of language. So it is surprising that technology only really took off in the last few thousand years, and invites questions about human capacity to cope with the current exponential improvements in technology.
geo wrote: Here on the east coast lately, Jupiter and Saturn are very prominent in the night sky, already high above the horizon by 8 p.m. or so.
An interesting point about visual astronomy is that planetary rising and setting happens at the same time of day or night all around the world. If Jupiter and Saturn are prominent soon after dusk, that is not something that applies to one geographical region of the earth but is the case around the whole planet. So it is true in the USA and Australia and Africa and everywhere that Mercury, Venus, Jupiter and Saturn are now all visible in the evening. Longitude does not affect visibility, but latitude does, with the planets currently quite low in the south from northern viewing points.

I remember when I was about twenty years old, coming home from a party at about 3am and seeing Orion and the Pleiades in the sky. The first view of the Pleiades each year has excited me because here in Australia it means summer is on the way.

In Works and Days, the ancient Greek Poet Hesiod said that when the Pleiades set at dusk it is time to plough the soil. That illustrates how observation of the stars has governed knowledge of the seasons. But since Hesiod, the last visibility of the Pleiades at evening, known as its heliacal setting, has drifted about six weeks later, due to the movement known as precession of the equinox.
User avatar
geo

2C - MOD & GOLD
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4779
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:24 am
15
Location: NC
Has thanked: 2198 times
Been thanked: 2200 times
United States of America

Re: The Human Cosmos - Ch. 1: Myth

Unread post

Robert Tulip wrote:An interesting point about visual astronomy is that planetary rising and setting happens at the same time of day or night all around the world. If Jupiter and Saturn are prominent soon after dusk, that is not something that applies to one geographical region of the earth but is the case around the whole planet.
Understood! I think my confusion stems from knowing that certain stars and constellations are hemisphere-dependent. For example, the Southern Cross can't be seen in the northern hemisphere. And likewise, those Down Under, like Robert, can't see Cassiopeia or the Big Dipper. I naturally assumed it might be the same for planets, but evidently that isn't the case. Thanks for pointing this out!

Now maybe someone can explain why toilets flow counter-clockwise in the southern hemisphere. :-D
-Geo
Question everything
User avatar
Mr. P

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Has Plan to Save Books During Fire
Posts: 3826
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:16 am
19
Location: NJ
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 137 times
Gender:
United States of America

Re: The Human Cosmos - Ch. 1: Myth

Unread post

Just got my copy yesterday. Will be joining in hopefully soon. I still gotta get my Think Again notes converted into conversation topics. Lol
When you refuse to learn, you become a disease.
Post Reply

Return to “The Human Cosmos: A Secret History of the Stars - by Jo Marchant”